@blurryface said:
posting for informational purposes only. not my words or opinion however i do find some of this info to be quite interesting:
what this opinion does not go on to say is that if anyone were to be able to scale it for psa’s use, it would be nat. also, if nat is/was the only angel investor, well, thats pretty much all ya need anyways.
If what was mentioned is all accurate information then it does cast doubt. How could it not? Still without knowing all the facts it's merely a cause for pause at best.
posting for informational purposes only. not my words or opinion however i do find some of this info to be quite interesting:
what this opinion does not go on to say is that if anyone were to be able to scale it for psa’s use, it would be nat. also, if nat is/was the only angel investor, well, thats pretty much all ya need anyways.
Totally not like the guy running We Work buying buildings and then leasing them back to his own company. Totally.
@Mickey71 said:
I have no idea how a computer can grade a card?? I would assume that no vintage could ever grade a 9 or 10. There is always a tippy touch of wear somewhere on a card. I'm not sure i've seen a perfect 10 vintage card.
I worked with an optical inspection machine over 20 years ago checking printed circuit boards (funny, we called them "cards") the machine could be programmed with a tolerance, so a "10" wouldn't have to be perfect.
A 1-100 grading scale would be more accurate if this were to ever happen.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@Mickey71 said:
I have no idea how a computer can grade a card?? I would assume that no vintage could ever grade a 9 or 10. There is always a tippy touch of wear somewhere on a card. I'm not sure i've seen a perfect 10 vintage card.
I worked with an optical inspection machine over 20 years ago checking printed circuit boards (funny, we called them "cards") the machine could be programmed with a tolerance, so a "10" wouldn't have to be perfect.
A 1-100 grading scale would be more accurate if this were to ever happen.
any more detail w/o getting too personal? what industry? computer, tv, phone, etc?
@Mickey71 said:
I have no idea how a computer can grade a card?? I would assume that no vintage could ever grade a 9 or 10. There is always a tippy touch of wear somewhere on a card. I'm not sure i've seen a perfect 10 vintage card.
I worked with an optical inspection machine over 20 years ago checking printed circuit boards (funny, we called them "cards") the machine could be programmed with a tolerance, so a "10" wouldn't have to be perfect.
A 1-100 grading scale would be more accurate if this were to ever happen.
any more detail w/o getting too personal? what industry? computer, tv, phone, etc?
how did the optical inspection machine work?
No problem.
Worked at a Printed Circuit manufacturer in Minneapolis for 24 years. We made "cards" for computers and even some for the Space Shuttle. We were one of the first companies to make the main boards for the instant cash machines.
I worked in several departments, when I worked in Routing we used a Driller/Router to cut the individual boards out of 18x24" & 21x24 panels.
It was pre programmed for the dimensions of the card, sometimes as many as a hundred different measurements.
You placed the item on a glass "bed", you had to put it almost exactly in the right spot, there was a "guide" to assist.
A camera would go to a starting point and would quickly "zoom" around above the part, checking length, width, distances from holes to edge, radius of curves etc. We never used it for the "z" axis, but it supposedly had the ability.
Would work perfectly for the size of a baseball card as well as squareness, centering, edges and supposedly any surface dents or bumps.
Not sure how it would work on print defects, but in 20 years I would imagine there have been advances in the technology.
Personally, I wouldn't take the human eye completely out of the grading process, but you would NEVER see a 60/40 centered card get a 10. A lot of subjectivity would be eliminated.
The other problem I thought of was the cards would have to be handled more often and could get "dinged".
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
cards being dinged in the process is a big concern to me as well. there have been a lot of 6s being reported and mostly seem to be on newer cards which makes me wonder if they are currently in beta already. especially when you state the "cards" had to be placed in a very specific place to accurately define.
and so as someone w a track record on something eerily similar, and considering the advances in technology, do you think the overall speed and if accurate outweighs the potential damage aspect?
If many people agree that graders probably spend no more than about 30 seconds a card....than all of the handling and placing on scanners and stuff would take even longer and involve way more intricate handling. I'm not a believer that a computer can be taught to do everything. Plus it sounds like the receiving and shipping departments are having serious issues. The new "Barcode" it seems has basically done nothing, which is surprising. The USPS can't even handle PSA shipments. That's a catastrophic issue all in itself. Why PSA opened up other offices; but still had all cards go to Newport Beach is totally beyond me. Especially the international ones. On another note.....subs must have slowed to almost a halt as compared to months ago. Crazy busy is a good problem; but only if you can handle it. How can someone move to Newport Beach to work for PSA ?? Would have to be too expensive to live there ??
Amazing how one press release can drive the hobby nuts
Well "shell" companies are common financial vehicles that both good companies (Apple /Microsoft) and bad ones ( think Enron type) use for a variety of reasons. There is a variety of reasons why this company could have been set up , purchased, announced, etc, etc, including major tax implications. I'm sure @cpamike could offer some perspective there on the why's
Nat's no amateur in financial vehicle transactional situations. Until I talk to him direct- I'll refrain from offering even the slightest comment on the purchased company why's.
I'll say this about the purchased company 'idea"- has major imaging / printing related issues that if some $$$ gets pumped in would provide another tool in the toolbox for graders to use- similar to say a black light. I can see why they'd be interested in the tech behind it. The technology though has limitations ( @JoeBanzai stated some printing related issues you can encounter and resolve) and I can see why graders eyes would have final say so.
While the opinion about the smoke and mirrors is valid-there's something else we are not being told-- there is more here that we are not being told .No further comment until I hear more and check into more of it. I'd at least like to educate myself about the big picture first before saying more.
Its like my wife or I reading the morning newspaper then going to buy this new sports car after reading some glowing article about it. While my Car and Driver mag just lambastes it as worst in class.
@Mickey71 said:
If many people agree that graders probably spend no more than about 30 seconds a card....than all of the handling and placing on scanners and stuff would take even longer and involve way more intricate handling. I'm not a believer that a computer can be taught to do everything. Plus it sounds like the receiving and shipping departments are having serious issues. The new "Barcode" it seems has basically done nothing, which is surprising. The USPS can't even handle PSA shipments. That's a catastrophic issue all in itself. Why PSA opened up other offices; but still had all cards go to Newport Beach is totally beyond me. Especially the international ones. On another note.....subs must have slowed to almost a halt as compared to months ago. Crazy busy is a good problem; but only if you can handle it. How can someone move to Newport Beach to work for PSA ?? Would have to be too expensive to live there ??
The shipping/receiving issue is a big one. Amazon had to come up with their own way to resolve that which is way beyond PSA's parent company means.
PSA will eventually get rid of most of the regular joe subs with their price structure and lack o' customer service which sarcastically sure will help alleviate their issues.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
Comments
If what was mentioned is all accurate information then it does cast doubt. How could it not? Still without knowing all the facts it's merely a cause for pause at best.
https://natsturner.com/investments - Wow! 1994 called it wants it's webpage page back....
I know its a tumblr scrape in effect but with his ways and means an actual professional website should have been SOP for last couple of decades.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
@blurryface said:
Totally not like the guy running We Work buying buildings and then leasing them back to his own company. Totally.
It's almost like something a public company wouldn't do because of disclosure requirements....
there have been several instances of companys being bought or invested in solely for patents.
I worked with an optical inspection machine over 20 years ago checking printed circuit boards (funny, we called them "cards") the machine could be programmed with a tolerance, so a "10" wouldn't have to be perfect.
A 1-100 grading scale would be more accurate if this were to ever happen.
any more detail w/o getting too personal? what industry? computer, tv, phone, etc?
how did the optical inspection machine work?
No problem.
Worked at a Printed Circuit manufacturer in Minneapolis for 24 years. We made "cards" for computers and even some for the Space Shuttle. We were one of the first companies to make the main boards for the instant cash machines.
I worked in several departments, when I worked in Routing we used a Driller/Router to cut the individual boards out of 18x24" & 21x24 panels.
At first we used a vernier caliper tool to measure the parts, but as the boards got more and more intricate, they purchased a "View" machine. https://dbeckcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Precis_200_799012.pdf
It was pre programmed for the dimensions of the card, sometimes as many as a hundred different measurements.
You placed the item on a glass "bed", you had to put it almost exactly in the right spot, there was a "guide" to assist.
A camera would go to a starting point and would quickly "zoom" around above the part, checking length, width, distances from holes to edge, radius of curves etc. We never used it for the "z" axis, but it supposedly had the ability.
Would work perfectly for the size of a baseball card as well as squareness, centering, edges and supposedly any surface dents or bumps.
Not sure how it would work on print defects, but in 20 years I would imagine there have been advances in the technology.
Personally, I wouldn't take the human eye completely out of the grading process, but you would NEVER see a 60/40 centered card get a 10. A lot of subjectivity would be eliminated.
The other problem I thought of was the cards would have to be handled more often and could get "dinged".
cards being dinged in the process is a big concern to me as well. there have been a lot of 6s being reported and mostly seem to be on newer cards which makes me wonder if they are currently in beta already. especially when you state the "cards" had to be placed in a very specific place to accurately define.
and so as someone w a track record on something eerily similar, and considering the advances in technology, do you think the overall speed and if accurate outweighs the potential damage aspect?
If many people agree that graders probably spend no more than about 30 seconds a card....than all of the handling and placing on scanners and stuff would take even longer and involve way more intricate handling. I'm not a believer that a computer can be taught to do everything. Plus it sounds like the receiving and shipping departments are having serious issues. The new "Barcode" it seems has basically done nothing, which is surprising. The USPS can't even handle PSA shipments. That's a catastrophic issue all in itself. Why PSA opened up other offices; but still had all cards go to Newport Beach is totally beyond me. Especially the international ones. On another note.....subs must have slowed to almost a halt as compared to months ago. Crazy busy is a good problem; but only if you can handle it. How can someone move to Newport Beach to work for PSA ?? Would have to be too expensive to live there ??
A billion questions that I can not even begin to think of the answers. Maybe there really aren't answers to some of these questions
Amazing how one press release can drive the hobby nuts
Well "shell" companies are common financial vehicles that both good companies (Apple /Microsoft) and bad ones ( think Enron type) use for a variety of reasons. There is a variety of reasons why this company could have been set up , purchased, announced, etc, etc, including major tax implications. I'm sure @cpamike could offer some perspective there on the why's
Nat's no amateur in financial vehicle transactional situations. Until I talk to him direct- I'll refrain from offering even the slightest comment on the purchased company why's.
I'll say this about the purchased company 'idea"- has major imaging / printing related issues that if some $$$ gets pumped in would provide another tool in the toolbox for graders to use- similar to say a black light. I can see why they'd be interested in the tech behind it. The technology though has limitations ( @JoeBanzai stated some printing related issues you can encounter and resolve) and I can see why graders eyes would have final say so.
While the opinion about the smoke and mirrors is valid-there's something else we are not being told-- there is more here that we are not being told .No further comment until I hear more and check into more of it. I'd at least like to educate myself about the big picture first before saying more.
Its like my wife or I reading the morning newspaper then going to buy this new sports car after reading some glowing article about it. While my Car and Driver mag just lambastes it as worst in class.
One mans "opinion' on this subject-
jeff
The shipping/receiving issue is a big one. Amazon had to come up with their own way to resolve that which is way beyond PSA's parent company means.
PSA will eventually get rid of most of the regular joe subs with their price structure and lack o' customer service which sarcastically sure will help alleviate their issues.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.