Just know that it took me a long time to put together this set so far, and I still need the standing liberty quarter. I needed the perfect combination of luster strike minimal marks no carbon etc. even though these are common coins took me a lot of effort to assemble. I just didn’t want to spend bigger money buying 66-67 coins. Cost me under $400 so far
@derryb said:
What makes you think DLRC did not already attempt to have them stickered? If not then they felt them to be unworthy.
This is the key thing. If the coin is valuable enough they would have tried to have it stickered. That doesn’t mean the coin is “bad” or anything but if it isn’t stickered then there’s likely a reason. This is one reason why I like the idea of CAC allowing you to see if a cert has been tried to CAC or not. I get the reason why they don’t but it would still be helpful info.
Time to send them in, wait about a week or so after they arrive, and then post your results. If the coins are as you describe, a lot of this thread can be moot (but not the concept that CAC is illegitimate if they don't CAC, which is the point that was made that's causing most of the posting).
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@robbylu52 said:
Think you guys are making fun of me like I am a first day collector
The negative comments pertain primarily to your test and basis for determining CAC’s “legitimacy”. Some people love CAC and others detest it, but its legitimacy has been well established. And your results will have zero impact on that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@robbylu52 said:
I will post the results. On what logic do you say they will not sticker sir?
My inner intuition. It's been wrong before and for you I hope I'm wrong again. The only experience I have with CAC so far is from looking at coins that did or did not sticker, so I'm just going on a hunch.
I think you might be trying too hard and have somehow come up with some kind of conspiracy theory or maybe you're just having fun and I misunderstood.
Best of luck!
I think it would behoove you to first verify the legitimacy of PCGS. After all, how can you really be sure that PCGS graded the coins accurately? You should crack out all the coins and resubmit them raw to PCGS to verify that they all come back the same grade again. You can't really test CAC if you haven't been thorough in vetting your sample. If any came back with different grades, then it would seem no grading organization could meet your definition of legitimate.
@TurtleCat is correct that any higher value coin posted for sale by DLRC without a sticker has certainly been sent for one. You are correct that at a certain threshold DLRC has no economic incentive to send a coin to CAC. But if they saw one of these coins that they felt would surely receive a gold sticker, I think that would change the equation.
I won't try to grade your coins by the photos presented, so I just wish you success with your submission.
Nothing pleases JA more than a challenge. If you had met him and observed him in action, you would realize he is truly motivated by being an advocate for the coin collector and trying to be an exceptional independent grade evaluator.
But you have lost your “validation test “ as you did not do a double blind test and announcing what you were doing before the test and also gave CAC a “heads up.”
It is nearly impossible to evaluate your coins just from photos but they are certainly photogenic for the grade except the walker as Mark Feld has stated. JA does not like big hits on a coin but with such a large photo every hit is magnified and might not as much of a negative as it appears on this thread.
The Franklin half might also have trouble passing CAC as the reverse side seems weaker for the cameo test. But it is only a photo and photos can magnify or hide issues on many coins.
The best way to evaluate is not by a single test but by multiple tests over a long period of time meaning many years. Once you understand his approach to evaluating the grade of each coin you will be 99% satisfied which is as good as it gets.
This is not to say he is perfect as even I have not always agreed with his opinions but there is no one better than him.
What's your eBay handle? I'd like to go ahead and block you now. I don't think anything I have will meet your standards, and PayPal doesn't refund fees on returns anymore.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
Robby your coins are very nice whether they match his taste or not. Ignore the nit pickers. MS70 is perfect rofl at them. I believe all would bring well over CDN bid if auctioned on eBay (start st 9.99) which wb the true acid test. Unless the increase MV of the CAC coin justifies the expense of sending to CAC I would keep my money. Take a look at what CPG says for the CAC value of each of your coins.
There was a thread on coin talk where they had a contest as to whether it would CAC or not. Members would vote on whether it would CAC or not then then the result would be revealed. It was very informational,unbiased, and entertaining. Many of the coins I agreed with him others I would reject sticker or not.
Do a search on eBay - PCGS CAC and you can draw your own conclusions. Compare the sellers pricing to CPG.
Download the CPG app - it is free. Remember there are many in here who have a huge investment in CAC material...
@robbylu52 said:
I am sending 5 coins to CAC as a test not only for my own validation but to see how legitimate they are, or if they sticker coins they want to buy or promote for their own interests
I hate to say this, but their 'legitimate-ness' is not in question, your ability to recognize great coins, may be. We will see.....
@robbylu52 said:
I am sending 5 coins to CAC as a test not only for my own validation but to see how legitimate they are, or if they sticker coins they want to buy or promote for their own interests
I hate to say this, but their 'legimate-ness' is not in question, your ability to recognize great coins, may be. We will see.....
Meh. Not every coin that gets a sticker is "great", and many great coins don't sticker. What he'll likely learn is how well CAC's standards align with his own. While I interpret his title to mean legitimate to him, others seem to interpret it to mean legitimate in general.
@coinhack said:
I believe the coins are valued at Walker $105, Buffalo $220, Lincoln $60, Mercury Dime $45, Franklin Proof $85. These are full retail values from a price guide. Grey sheet shows a bump of $30 for the Buffalo. They do not show values for the other coins in the grades you posted. At least not in the printed edition.
That Mercury dime will not increase $10 in value. I believe that is true because occasionally I buy CAC coins. On less expensive Morgans, I have been able to buy them for the same as non stickered coins or maybe $10 more. This is for coins in the $100 to $500 range. Which is more than the coins you are sending in.
Even gold coins aren't getting big increases unless they are 4 or 5 figures and up. I bought three $2.50 Indians recently and they were all PCGS. Two had stickers and one did not. I paid $15 more for the ones with stickers than the one without. These were not high end but were $600 coins.
Just a little information that I hope will be of some use to you. From what I have seen, if you go 5 for 5 you will still pay more to get your stickers than they will increase in value.
In any case, it should be a fun experiment for you and I wish you luck with it.
This. Those coins are not worth submitting to CAC unless you want to hone your skills on what qualifies as solid or nice for the grade. My rough benchmark is that the coin needs to be worth $200 or more to make it worthwhile to send to CAC.
Something I learned in the ANA grading class done with NGC slabbed coins.
You play to win the game.
My eye had adjusted to more PCGS standards so I had to adjust to NGC standards.
Being a competition vs the other tables, we quickly came up with our grade, but asked ourselves what the "finalizer" Mr. Fivaz standards were? We adjusted yet again.
We won, I learned alot, but it is inherently problematic process.
Not having viewed thousands of CAC coins I don't see an easy road for you. In time (years) certainly possible.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Please be careful as to what you write. Please note that grading has a subjective component which translates into a simple concept that some opinions are better than others. The coins you have posted here that you plan to submit to CAC really does nothing to establish much... it certainly will not accomplish your stated objective. You would be better served not to submit these coins because at best, it will have a minimal economic benefit. Collectors obtain the greatest benefit from CAC for higher graded coins with much greater spreads between grades.
Best wishes with the submission if you choose to go forward with it.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Not so sure what this exercise is all about it?
Is it an ego trip ? do you need to spend extra money because you can?
Just wondering why you need an opinion over another opinion...what is next?
just saying...
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
I regard CAC as separate inventory class that trades at its particular CPG MV or CAC bid. Sort of like a car in gtao that has been to the mod shop - chrome wheels, custom tires, tinted glass, armor, engine upgrade, respray, etc.
I reject generalizations a non CAC TPG coin is not legitimate. Mods, World, Currency not even CAC period. Nor is everybody going to sink money into CAC material, expense.
If CAC offered to me at my table at a show my offer wb around 73 pct it’s CAC CPG assuming I had a need for that piece. Beyond that not a buyer of that material. Frankly been on a tear get more of my currency graded and acquire more World especially Mexico PCGS graded coins.
Comments
Just know that it took me a long time to put together this set so far, and I still need the standing liberty quarter. I needed the perfect combination of luster strike minimal marks no carbon etc. even though these are common coins took me a lot of effort to assemble. I just didn’t want to spend bigger money buying 66-67 coins. Cost me under $400 so far
Think you guys are making fun of me like I am a first day collector
This is the key thing. If the coin is valuable enough they would have tried to have it stickered. That doesn’t mean the coin is “bad” or anything but if it isn’t stickered then there’s likely a reason. This is one reason why I like the idea of CAC allowing you to see if a cert has been tried to CAC or not. I get the reason why they don’t but it would still be helpful info.
Move along folks. That's it, keep movin', there's nothing to see here . . . . . . .
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins, justindan, doubleeagle07
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
We're all just waiting for Mr. CAC Hater to show up with a new alt and get banned for a 4th time.
Time to send them in, wait about a week or so after they arrive, and then post your results. If the coins are as you describe, a lot of this thread can be moot (but not the concept that CAC is illegitimate if they don't CAC, which is the point that was made that's causing most of the posting).
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
None of those coins POP and none of them will CAC. IMNSHO
And the earth actually is round in case you're still wondering.
They don't have to pop to be solid for the grade
Why would DLRC sticker such inexpensive coins Turtle Cat? Doesn’t make sense. these are $50-200 coins
The negative comments pertain primarily to your test and basis for determining CAC’s “legitimacy”. Some people love CAC and others detest it, but its legitimacy has been well established. And your results will have zero impact on that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I will post the results. On what logic do you say they will not sticker sir?
My inner intuition. It's been wrong before and for you I hope I'm wrong again. The only experience I have with CAC so far is from looking at coins that did or did not sticker, so I'm just going on a hunch.
I think you might be trying too hard and have somehow come up with some kind of conspiracy theory or maybe you're just having fun and I misunderstood.
Best of luck!
You don't have to be a first time collector to have some market misconceptions.
I think it would behoove you to first verify the legitimacy of PCGS. After all, how can you really be sure that PCGS graded the coins accurately? You should crack out all the coins and resubmit them raw to PCGS to verify that they all come back the same grade again. You can't really test CAC if you haven't been thorough in vetting your sample. If any came back with different grades, then it would seem no grading organization could meet your definition of legitimate.
@TurtleCat is correct that any higher value coin posted for sale by DLRC without a sticker has certainly been sent for one. You are correct that at a certain threshold DLRC has no economic incentive to send a coin to CAC. But if they saw one of these coins that they felt would surely receive a gold sticker, I think that would change the equation.
I won't try to grade your coins by the photos presented, so I just wish you success with your submission.
Nothing pleases JA more than a challenge. If you had met him and observed him in action, you would realize he is truly motivated by being an advocate for the coin collector and trying to be an exceptional independent grade evaluator.
But you have lost your “validation test “ as you did not do a double blind test and announcing what you were doing before the test and also gave CAC a “heads up.”
It is nearly impossible to evaluate your coins just from photos but they are certainly photogenic for the grade except the walker as Mark Feld has stated. JA does not like big hits on a coin but with such a large photo every hit is magnified and might not as much of a negative as it appears on this thread.
The Franklin half might also have trouble passing CAC as the reverse side seems weaker for the cameo test. But it is only a photo and photos can magnify or hide issues on many coins.
The best way to evaluate is not by a single test but by multiple tests over a long period of time meaning many years. Once you understand his approach to evaluating the grade of each coin you will be 99% satisfied which is as good as it gets.
This is not to say he is perfect as even I have not always agreed with his opinions but there is no one better than him.
What's your eBay handle? I'd like to go ahead and block you now. I don't think anything I have will meet your standards, and PayPal doesn't refund fees on returns anymore.
The rest of the half looks quite nice for a 65. Good quality strike, too.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
After due consideration, I confidently predict that poof (sic) positive will arise from this thread.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins, justindan, doubleeagle07
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
Robby your coins are very nice whether they match his taste or not. Ignore the nit pickers. MS70 is perfect rofl at them. I believe all would bring well over CDN bid if auctioned on eBay (start st 9.99) which wb the true acid test. Unless the increase MV of the CAC coin justifies the expense of sending to CAC I would keep my money. Take a look at what CPG says for the CAC value of each of your coins.
There was a thread on coin talk where they had a contest as to whether it would CAC or not. Members would vote on whether it would CAC or not then then the result would be revealed. It was very informational,unbiased, and entertaining. Many of the coins I agreed with him others I would reject sticker or not.
Do a search on eBay - PCGS CAC and you can draw your own conclusions. Compare the sellers pricing to CPG.
Download the CPG app - it is free. Remember there are many in here who have a huge investment in CAC material...
I hate to say this, but their 'legitimate-ness' is not in question, your ability to recognize great coins, may be. We will see.....
Your coins look generically gem. I hope CAC sees them as you do (ownership and all taken into account).
peacockcoins
Meh. Not every coin that gets a sticker is "great", and many great coins don't sticker. What he'll likely learn is how well CAC's standards align with his own. While I interpret his title to mean legitimate to him, others seem to interpret it to mean legitimate in general.
Your "study" is seriously flawed. You are just wasting your money.
Now, were getting some good information.
This. Those coins are not worth submitting to CAC unless you want to hone your skills on what qualifies as solid or nice for the grade. My rough benchmark is that the coin needs to be worth $200 or more to make it worthwhile to send to CAC.
Something I learned in the ANA grading class done with NGC slabbed coins.
You play to win the game.
My eye had adjusted to more PCGS standards so I had to adjust to NGC standards.
Being a competition vs the other tables, we quickly came up with our grade, but asked ourselves what the "finalizer" Mr. Fivaz standards were? We adjusted yet again.
We won, I learned alot, but it is inherently problematic process.
Not having viewed thousands of CAC coins I don't see an easy road for you. In time (years) certainly possible.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Please be careful as to what you write. Please note that grading has a subjective component which translates into a simple concept that some opinions are better than others. The coins you have posted here that you plan to submit to CAC really does nothing to establish much... it certainly will not accomplish your stated objective. You would be better served not to submit these coins because at best, it will have a minimal economic benefit. Collectors obtain the greatest benefit from CAC for higher graded coins with much greater spreads between grades.
Best wishes with the submission if you choose to go forward with it.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
For me the bench mark the increase in MV CAC CPG vs cost of submission CAC.
Not so sure what this exercise is all about it?
Is it an ego trip ? do you need to spend extra money because you can?
Just wondering why you need an opinion over another opinion...what is next?
just saying...
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
So, the bottom line for you is, if they CAC, they're legitimate. If they don't CAC, they're not legitimate.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I regard CAC as separate inventory class that trades at its particular CPG MV or CAC bid. Sort of like a car in gtao that has been to the mod shop - chrome wheels, custom tires, tinted glass, armor, engine upgrade, respray, etc.
I reject generalizations a non CAC TPG coin is not legitimate. Mods, World, Currency not even CAC period. Nor is everybody going to sink money into CAC material, expense.
If CAC offered to me at my table at a show my offer wb around 73 pct it’s CAC CPG assuming I had a need for that piece. Beyond that not a buyer of that material. Frankly been on a tear get more of my currency graded and acquire more World especially Mexico PCGS graded coins.