@planetsteve said:
Basic question: since the critiques of these coins are citing only contact marks, doesn't it stand to reason that all or most of these coins would sticker if they were just graded one point lower? (I suppose a coin with a designation like PL might fail to sticker at any grade if it isn't really PL and that is what CAC is screening.)
They should. CAC is commenting on the coin at that grade not the coin itself
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
In my experience, JA is selective on Morgan's as he must see a lot lot them. To get the bean on PL and DMPL Morgan's it starts with the mirrors. The mirrors must be strong., on your PL coin the mirrors most likely held it back from a bean.
Here's a thought....and the only one here rooted what so ever in awareness and intelligent thinking:
As yourself why it is, interpersonally, you're desperately chasing the (now secondary) opinion (aka needed personal validation) from an completely inconsistent, fundamentally profit based, RESPONSIBILITY FREE entity that brings ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the marketplace or hobby other than falsely inflated prices instead of investing your time into education so you have confidence in and satisfaction from YOUR opinion? Then fix the reason your doing this! Poof....problem gone for you and hobby MASSIVELY improved for everyone!
Well...except for the greed driven people and entities that care less about collectors or integrity than they do a paper dollar...of which maybe you're one?
@breakdown said:
FWIW, I appreciate the OP posting this and allowing feedback. It's not always easy to have your own babies criticized but it is educational and not just for the owner.
Fully agree, thank you OP and contributors, and thanks to the moderator for not locking or poofing this thread. It’s been very educational.
@breakdown said:
FWIW, I appreciate the OP posting this and allowing feedback. It's not always easy to have your own babies criticized but it is educational and not just for the owner.
Fully agree, thank you OP and contributors, and thanks to the moderator for not locking or poofing this thread. It’s been very educational.
Won’t be long since it looks like a certain person has created another account to carry on their complaint.
@GomezGold said:
Here's a thought....and the only one here rooted what so ever in awareness and intelligent thinking:
As yourself why it is, interpersonally, you're desperately chasing the (now secondary) opinion (aka needed personal validation) from an completely inconsistent, fundamentally profit based, RESPONSIBILITY FREE entity that brings ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the marketplace or hobby other than falsely inflated prices instead of investing your time into education so you have confidence in and satisfaction from YOUR opinion? Then fix the reason your doing this! Poof....problem gone for you and hobby MASSIVELY improved for everyone!
Well...except for the greed driven people and entities that care less about collectors or integrity than they do a paper dollar...of which maybe you're one?
Eeesh. Well someone went and got a burner account.
I agree with Mark and Bruce. I’ll also add that it looks like there may be some minor rim issues on the 1878-CC. JA does not usually look favorably on those.
Another aspect of CAC is that if they sticker the slab then they are stating that the coin is clearly acceptable as solid for the grade sight unseen by them as well as what they believe any potential buyer would want.
The fact that they did not sticker it does not always mean it is an overgraded coin but could mean it is on the lowest 1/3 of the grade spectrum.
I have had fabulous stickerable CAC coins that failed only because it had PVC. PVC can easily be removed from gold coins without harming the gold surface.
Once PCGS removed the PVC (at no charge to me) then CAC stickered the coin.
Lesson: Find out from JA why he did not sticker the coins. What you may learn could be more valuable than you can imagine.
Example
66.0
66.1
66,2
66.3 these 4 grades do not qualify for CAC.
I sent a note along a CAC submission last month asking if JA could let me his reason for any coins that did not sticker. When the coins were returned there was a post-it note to give him a call, He was very patient with me and referred to notes he had on each coin that did not sticker and I must say I agreed with him. I think he may even have had pictures to refer to. He commented that he is tough on Morgan dollars. Not sure if he keeps notes on every submission but it can't hurt to call and ask. By the way I only scored 4 out of 12 and was oblivious to wiping or thumbing on three of the straight graded gold coins I submitted.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
@tommy44 said:
I sent a note along a CAC submission last month asking if JA could let me his reason for any coins that did not sticker. When the coins were returned there was a post-it note to give him a call, He was very patient with me and referred to notes he had on each coin that did not sticker and I must say I agreed with him. I think he may even have had pictures to refer to. He commented that he is tough on Morgan dollars. Not sure if he keeps notes on every submission but it can't hurt to call and ask. By the way I only scored 4 out of 12 and was oblivious to wiping or thumbing on three of the straight graded gold coins I submitted.
I had the same experience. I asked for details on a coin, he asked me to call, and he gave me the details and I listened with the coin in hand and a similar coin that didn't pass and I could see exactly what he was talking about. He even remembered the other coins in my submission.
@tommy44 said:
I sent a note along a CAC submission last month asking if JA could let me his reason for any coins that did not sticker. When the coins were returned there was a post-it note to give him a call, He was very patient with me and referred to notes he had on each coin that did not sticker and I must say I agreed with him. I think he may even have had pictures to refer to. He commented that he is tough on Morgan dollars. Not sure if he keeps notes on every submission but it can't hurt to call and ask. By the way I only scored 4 out of 12 and was oblivious to wiping or thumbing on three of the straight graded gold coins I submitted.
They do not keep notes on everything, unfortunately, but I understand why.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Grades aside, all those coins are nice, but I agree that other than the 84-CC, they all look like "just made it" for the grade. The 85-CC is a beautiful coin, but with all the chatter on the cheek and in the left obverse field I would not want it as a 66.
My thoughts are that cac is a complete waste of good money.
Love to see your coins if you say that........................ $15 for the opinion of one of the top 3 graders of US coins in the world, seems like cheap information and learning to me, but what do I know?
@pointfivezero said:
FWIW - the best explanation I’ve heard
on how those scratches occurred was due to contaminant in the lard they used as lubricant on the strips.
As I understand it, the rollers themselves may have not been perfectly smooth. I think that's why they call them roller marks. Planchet strips usually had lots of scratches and defects
What probably would be helpful to you would be to ask CAC why they felt they did not rise to the standard. In this way you would have a better understanding and gain knowledge for the future. Many times I send in coins for people that I do not feel are worthy but they insist that they want to try. The coins I see above are ok but not really the level I would say rise to having a CAC sticker on them. Doesn’t mean they are bad just average
Comments
They should. CAC is commenting on the coin at that grade not the coin itself
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
In my experience, JA is selective on Morgan's as he must see a lot lot them. To get the bean on PL and DMPL Morgan's it starts with the mirrors. The mirrors must be strong., on your PL coin the mirrors most likely held it back from a bean.
Challenge accepted:
Fair enough
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Acceptable on a 64. Not a 66.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Check the picture two posts north....
It doesn’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
FWIW - the best explanation I’ve heard
on how those scratches occurred was due to contaminant in the lard they used as lubricant on the strips.
So I see. Although I wouldn't tolerate it. Far too distracting to my eye.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
That shouldn't have beaned imho. CAC graders are humans so who knows.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
That brings up a good question. Does JA have employees or does he personally review all submissions?
Three graders including JA from my understanding.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Here's a thought....and the only one here rooted what so ever in awareness and intelligent thinking:
As yourself why it is, interpersonally, you're desperately chasing the (now secondary) opinion (aka needed personal validation) from an completely inconsistent, fundamentally profit based, RESPONSIBILITY FREE entity that brings ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the marketplace or hobby other than falsely inflated prices instead of investing your time into education so you have confidence in and satisfaction from YOUR opinion? Then fix the reason your doing this! Poof....problem gone for you and hobby MASSIVELY improved for everyone!
Well...except for the greed driven people and entities that care less about collectors or integrity than they do a paper dollar...of which maybe you're one?
Fully agree, thank you OP and contributors, and thanks to the moderator for not locking or poofing this thread. It’s been very educational.
Won’t be long since it looks like a certain person has created another account to carry on their complaint.
He didn’t last long.
Really a shame to lose the only guy on the board "rooted in awareness and intelligent thinking"!
Not banned yet, just using that avatar as a badge of honor, won't be long tho I expect.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Eeesh. Well someone went and got a burner account.
The rims on the 78-CC are too banged up.
peacockcoins
I agree with Mark and Bruce. I’ll also add that it looks like there may be some minor rim issues on the 1878-CC. JA does not usually look favorably on those.
Another aspect of CAC is that if they sticker the slab then they are stating that the coin is clearly acceptable as solid for the grade sight unseen by them as well as what they believe any potential buyer would want.
The fact that they did not sticker it does not always mean it is an overgraded coin but could mean it is on the lowest 1/3 of the grade spectrum.
I have had fabulous stickerable CAC coins that failed only because it had PVC. PVC can easily be removed from gold coins without harming the gold surface.
Once PCGS removed the PVC (at no charge to me) then CAC stickered the coin.
Lesson: Find out from JA why he did not sticker the coins. What you may learn could be more valuable than you can imagine.
Example
66.0
66.1
66,2
66.3 these 4 grades do not qualify for CAC.
66,4 to 66.9 qualifies for CAC.
I sent a note along a CAC submission last month asking if JA could let me his reason for any coins that did not sticker. When the coins were returned there was a post-it note to give him a call, He was very patient with me and referred to notes he had on each coin that did not sticker and I must say I agreed with him. I think he may even have had pictures to refer to. He commented that he is tough on Morgan dollars. Not sure if he keeps notes on every submission but it can't hurt to call and ask. By the way I only scored 4 out of 12 and was oblivious to wiping or thumbing on three of the straight graded gold coins I submitted.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
I had the same experience. I asked for details on a coin, he asked me to call, and he gave me the details and I listened with the coin in hand and a similar coin that didn't pass and I could see exactly what he was talking about. He even remembered the other coins in my submission.
They do not keep notes on everything, unfortunately, but I understand why.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Grades aside, all those coins are nice, but I agree that other than the 84-CC, they all look like "just made it" for the grade. The 85-CC is a beautiful coin, but with all the chatter on the cheek and in the left obverse field I would not want it as a 66.
just my thoughts: cheeks may have more marks than he likes and a couple coins appear hazy. nice coins though!
<<>>
My thoughts are that cac is a complete waste of good money.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Love to see your coins if you say that........................ $15 for the opinion of one of the top 3 graders of US coins in the world, seems like cheap information and learning to me, but what do I know?
As I understand it, the rollers themselves may have not been perfectly smooth. I think that's why they call them roller marks. Planchet strips usually had lots of scratches and defects
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
When it comes time to sell, Mr Market disagrees.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
In my experience, the people that profess this the loudest are the ones that need it the most...
Been downsizing all my stuff.
I looked, and sadly, there is only one coin in my possession that qualifies for CAC...
JA is gonna need shades!
Anyone got room for a piggy back?
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
What probably would be helpful to you would be to ask CAC why they felt they did not rise to the standard. In this way you would have a better understanding and gain knowledge for the future. Many times I send in coins for people that I do not feel are worthy but they insist that they want to try. The coins I see above are ok but not really the level I would say rise to having a CAC sticker on them. Doesn’t mean they are bad just average