Can a coin be struck multiple times on only one side?*UPDATED AGAIN with pics on 4/30 in last post.
TennesseeDave
Posts: 4,792 ✭✭✭✭✭
A co-worker today told me he had a 1964-D Nickel that was struck multiple times, but only on the reverse. Is that possible? He's supposed to bring it for me to look at soon. I will take pics of it and post to this thread when I see it in person.
Sorry about the quality of the phone pics.
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Not possible. It would be like clapping with one hand.
Take pics of both sides even if it is pmd
Hammer - anvil
Perhaps the anvil was leather ??? can there be a decent looking single sided vice job?
Or, struck with a capped die?
I don't think so.
You'd have to somehow move the obverse die without moving the reverse die.
Maybe a brockage?
Or perhaps a die cap?
Or someone just screwing around.
Seems that if a coin became stuck to one of the dies it is possible that the other side could be struck more than once while the stuck side only received the initial strike.
Gold has a world price entirely unaffected by accounting games between the Treasury and the Fed. - Jim Rickards
Yes, it's possible, but both sides would be struck, just one side would not have an image from the die (it would be from the planchet). It can occur if two planchets fall into the coining chamber and are not ejected after the first strike. Both coins would be double struck, each one with only one side showing the doubling and the other side appearing blank (since the planchet served as the die surface).
The the two coins remain in the coining chamber, then a third and fourth and ... etc ... can occur if the coins are not ejected.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
"Die cap"
I have seen U.S.Proof coins that were given two strikes where the hammer die rotated a bit between impressions.
Die cap, etc. - in my mind the coin is still struck the same on both sides. It's just a question of what is striking the planchet.
This just brought me back and I will date myself.
I remember being a kid and watching the 6 Million Dollar Man.
He had a mechanical arm. A mechanical arm, not both.
He used to hold a chain in one arm and pull with the magical mechanical arm
and break the chain. Wait What ! That would be like hooking one end
of the chain to a truck and holding the other end while the truck drove away.
Guess that's why we used to call it the boob tube.
well lets think this through..............
Aren't proof coins struck more than once?
if so, then this coin could have been struck twice with one of the dies rotating or doing what
ever is the indication of multiple strikes
On Etsy, anything is possible . . . .
Z
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
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No
Thanks everyone, I will get a picture of the coin and post it here as soon as I can.
He didn't say it wasn't struck on both sides. He said it was only multiply struck on one side. That could mean it is singly struck on the other.
The OP's coin is a 1964-D. It is not a proof.
I would say no.
We await the pictures.... Sometimes, the verbalization of an anomaly does not quite fit or truly describe the actual situation. Cheers, RickO
Is this comparable to "clapping with one hand" using someone else's hand too? Hey isn't that known as a HIGH FIVE?
That's nothing. I just spent the past few nights watching Avengers movies.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Yes, that's what I said.
It is actually not that rare on the S-mint Proofs from 1968 well into the 1970's.
It is also possible on the 1967 SMS coins, some or all of which were given double strikes.
I'm not buying it.
When any coin is struck, it is struck on both sides. If there are not two dies then there is no pressure created that strikes up the design. (Uniface medals or die trials not included here, but even in those cases it could be argued that the flat anvil/base is a striking surface). If there is a die cap then one side won't be struck directly by a die but by a die with a cap, but it is still struck.
In the scenario where a coin is struck twice but one die turns slightly in between strikes, the coin is still struck twice. But one side shows two images.
We need pictures. The coin is most likely either some fantastic error where the owner has not properly captured what happened in his description, or it is a coin with one side planed off.
There is a hammer die, and an anvil die (leave the edge die out for now). Although one is moving and the other is stationary, the force and pressure is equal on both dies, and both sides of the planchet. If the anvil die does not rotate or move in multiple strikes but the hammer die does, and if the planchet does not move off the anvil die, the coin side from the anvil die will appear as a single strike.
He did say that the coin looks mostly normal on the obverse and looks to have received multiple strikes on the reverse. I did tell him that I thought it would have to be struck the same number of times on each side unless it became sandwiched between another coin and the reverse die. I look forward to seeing it and hopefully it is at least an authentic error.
Bump for update with pics in 1st post
bump
for new pics in OP
it seems to me as i read the title anyway that there are several ways that could happen. we see them posted here fairly often.
die caps, general multi-strucks, brockages, struck-through die caps and i'm sure a couple others.
i'm not saying the coin in the op is legit by any means, just as the way the question is asked is a yes.
just for those that dont know.
a coin stuck to the anvil die (bottom) can be struck from the hammer die (top) oriented as coin strike but hammer die can rotate a little or a lot and more than once between strikes and the die will continue to be struck until it is somehow ejected, bounced, flicked or pulled etc. and the possibly rotating hammer die will also keep doing so until someone catches it.
a coin stuck to the hammer die (top) will have a normal-ish obv with a slowly obliterating reverse going from clean brockage to flat and mushy nothing. can a coin stuck to a hammer die rotate with the obv die between strikes, obviously and keeping its crisp design although i'm not entirely sure i've seen rotated brockages but there's gotta be some.
my 2c
ps. i hope we get crisp images of that rev. something seriously funky is going on.
PMD, not an error coin.
Fake error made by squeezing coins together.
I agree that its PMD, but it is not a typical squeeze job since the lettering is not reversed.
Anyone have any ideas?
The extra letters are above the coins surface, not "pressed" into them. So I do not understand this logic. I tried to replicate a similar coin by squeezing coins together in a vice and the results were letters pressed into the other coins surface and they were backwards.
.
that is what i mean by funky. it looks like to me the letters are "raised" at least on one side and possibly both, which is why i hope we get a better image of the reverse.
at the very least, good conversation and learning.
Now take the coin you made (lets call it Coin 2) and press it into another new nickel (Coin 3). The image you create in Coin 3 will be faint and raised, basically you made Coin 2 into a weak die when you pushed Coin 1 into it like a hub. That's one way I can think of to make a coin like the OP's, I'm sure there are others.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
If you look at the bottom of the coin were States of America is located you can clearly see where the letters that shouldn't be there are under the States of America without flattening them. On the top of the reverse the M of E Pluribus Unum is on top of the underlying letters without damage. I'm not saying it's legit, but trying to understand how it could be produced by any type of squeeze method. Thanks for the opinions so far.
Leather
I share your curiosity about how it was done, but on the flip side there is no way it can be an error and look like that. So, it is PMD of one kind or another.
Or better yet, use one hand on some deserving person's face
PS:
I think the coin was a "vice job" of some sort. It would take multiple transfers, in the right order and position to produce that. The tricky part is preserving the relatively high thin rims of the host coin.
Here is a vice job I did once (note the well-transferred "S" mint mark between the date digits):
The picture isn't showing up. I would like to see it. FWIW I am going to get better pics of the nickel and post them here at a later date.
Hmmmmm, the pictures showed up for me. It's a Kennedy half married with an Ike, but only on the obverse. Dcarr is amazing.
Eisenhower dollar and the Kennedy. The S mint mark would not be from a Franklin.
False dies- see seanq's post. There are a lot of these 'errors' floating around. Most of the ones I've seen have been on state quarters.
I talked a guy at a renaissance festival to use his medallion press to make something similar.
Mr_Spud
They don't show up for me, either.
Oooops, my mistake. I meant Kennedy. Corrected- thanks!
ohhhh..... he's had this happen before. this is one of those location dependent problems.
I'm not sure he'd want me to post them into the web site, or I'd just do it.
try viewing the thread on your phone
Thx, but I do view it on my phone.
Maybe later I'll try the tablet.
I don't know what the problem is - some setting on my web hosting, not sure what.
Anyway, here are links to the pictures:
Obverse: designscomputed.com/coin_pics/kenn_error_obv.jpg
Reverse: designscomputed.com/coin_pics/kenn_error_rev.jpg
Thx!
dcarr that's an amazing piece that you were able to able to create. Thanks for sharing it .
Sometimes a second strike in one side is less visible because the first strike might have been obliterated by the second strike. Seems less likely on nickels than something softer. Really need high power photos.
Here are some pics I just took of the coin out of the holder.