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And If The Price Increases In Grading Do Not Solve The Backlog Problem...
BLUEJAYWAY
Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
Then what? What would be the next step? Has there been any time frame discussed in how long this solution will take until it's desired effect? Were other options considered?
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
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Just buy graded cards and enjoy them. Life is too short to just sit at computer, hitting the refresh button and see if your card has moved up a stage in the process.
i would counter that it's kinda "refreshing" knowing that your cards came straight from packs and are confirmed to be completely unaltered.
but i do agree about life being too short. if you create a sole email address to send notifications once your grades pop, then you don't have to sit around hitting refresh.
The price increase is one thing, but new ownership has also commented on their desire to implement new technology, open up new facilities, etc. The issue is being addressed from a number of different angles.
won't price increases always decrease backlogs?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
nope. see the previous price increase.
I see this as similar to the stock market. the initial rise in prices will actually make card inflation happen even faster and more pronounced in the short term. but, the more that happens the extreme likelyhood of the crash will happen and all values of cards will be 50% over a period of 12 months at some point. At the end of the day, hopefully there will be a core group of collectors who truly enjoy the hobby!
Thanks for the clarification. Is it fair to assume that the price increase also was made to financially assist in the implementation of your noted new changes, and not strictly as a means to deter some submissions? I keep seeing it posted that this seemed to be the main reason for the rate increase,a deterrent for some types of submissions.
I'm not sure the price increase will have much of an impact because of the super high prices for already graded cards right now. While it's hard to tell from an ebay picture if a card will grade out a 9 or 10 I can usually tell if it's at least a 7. I'm working on a modern NFL HOF RC set which I was late to the party and started this past June. Even in June, I was able to buy HOF linemen, and other non-skilled positions graded PSA 8 and 9 for less than it cost to have them graded....well not anymore. However, you can easily buy these cards for under $10 and get them graded and your total cost is well below what it would cost to buy the graded card. Prices for the star cards are even crazier.
NFL HOF Set
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/398345
then that shows a company the initial price increases were not enough. I think a lot of the backlog is with modern stuff worth less than $100. raise prices, at least temporarily, to the level it does not make sense to grade those and the backlog can then be worked on.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
PSA is riding very high now, but the worm will eventually turn. The quality of their actions during a bull collectors market will directly affect their business during the next bear. While you can't make everyone happy you don't want to offend most of your client base.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
IMO, the price increase will definitely decrease the amount of set registry items and minor stars. For example, I was considering starting a Mike Greenwell set registry, but was hesitant to do it at $10 per card. No way in hell am I paying $20 per card. I personally won’t be doing anymore of the set registries. Another example, look at the sale prices of numerous PSA 10 Topps Heritage. Many stars and rookies can be had for $30 or less. Why would people continue to send in cards where you have to get a PSA 10 to break even? Some may, but I won’t be one do so.
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Throwing money at a problem never solves a problem. Merely puts a short term stopper in the hole.
PSA is saying that these improvements that they have made recently in the last year are supposed to improve the internal processes. So if PSA improves multiple internal process, and they improve the speed of that internal process, how's it suddenly costing nearly 4x the cost from 1 year ago ,while showing no progress on ORDER FLOW issues ? See the below for just one example of what I am talking about.
And rather than pop that Ultra why didn't they pop the 2x as expensive ECONOMY-- the one they publicly said was the "most" impacted ?? Addressing that economy and higher backlog I think that alone might alleviate a lot of the public grumblings. I'm cool with paying more for less-- seems to be how inflation works during my lifetime ( merely look at the Whopper as a well known example) -- but gee whiz. Seeing the below just makes me wonder what is happening there inside.
I look forward to hearing more about registry related follow up explanations. The new "owner" is a collector as well. He should understand what I am trying to get at here. They're killing registry ,at the expense of short term profit money grabbing ,while the Covid bubbles good. After round 3 money orders process, and that backlog of a year dwindles--that gravy trains gonna end-- and if they upset the core groups that subbed before and during Covid ? Not exactly wise.
Jeff
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I cannot comment specifically on your orders as I know nothing about them. However, there are a lot of things going on at once. First, Steve Sloan recently announced that we are receiving 100,000 cards per day. We've hired hundreds of people across the company, reviewed and changed processes, expanded our facility by 2x and did so while the Covid restrictions in California are changing on seemingly a daily basis. In the meantime we just underwent a buyout and are adapting to whatever changes come about from that situation.
I can promise you that set registry members have not been forgotten and programs are currently being designed specifically for them. Once again, several issues are being addresses from multiple angles.
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All I need to hear- the feedback is appreciated Todd.
The company I contract for, and serves small businesses, upped their prices last summer, in the middle of the pandemic where small businesses were closing everywhere. Of course they did a pretty detailed analysis that they would only lose a small amount of customers, while boosting overall profit margins by a lot.
I guarantee you PSA did a similar analysis, and know with a fair amount of certainty, that the price increases won't cost them much overall business in the short or long run - definitely not enough business to offset the increased profits they'll gain.
Hire more people. When business expands and needs out supply production get more people. It does not take a MBA to figure that out.
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
I guess you missed the part where I said we've hired hundreds of people in the last year and are still hiring.
I say go out and get pizza.
Life always seems a little bit better after a really good slice.
I would rather wait longer and get correct grades than have some unknowledgeable (perhaps) new hire slap a boat load of 6's on my cards and send them back quicker, so I can quickly crack and re-grade. Give me patience Lord, but hurry.
Until things get better, if you can't wait, just buy graded cards.
Thank you for the update. It may be beneficial to follow suit of other major businesses and open up business in a less restrictive state.
Agree, but as you see all cards are up in price plus tax and shipping. A used to be 10 dollar common is now 25 or 30. But that will probably be the new norm. But I will have 1400 to spend on cheap graded commons. But I can and will wait. Time is relative depending on which side of the bathroom door you're on.
What, exactly, would you have had PSA do differently?
It's really easy to run a business you do not own.
"Hire more people" I said when the company I worked for was overwhelmed with work.
One of the office people said 50% of the applicants failed the drug test and a pretty high number of people failed their probationary/training period. It takes time to add good people.
Looks like all the grading companies are backed up.
Might be a good time to work on having patience. With the price explosions going on right now, more cards are going to be submitted.
I have a submission that has been at PSA for 9 months and is in the grading stage. Yes, I wish they were done and in hand.
I'm less concerned about the time and more wishing PSA would do something, anything, to acknowledge the loyal customers who have been waiting so long.
Extend every current CC member for an additional year at no cost and throw in a couple free grading certificates.
Do a special deal for anyone with a sub sitting for longer than 9 months. Maybe 25% off your next 50 subs.
Enter every CC member into a sweepstakes to win 250 subs a year for life.
Those are all small gestures that would go a long way toward keeping customers happy. It's basic customer relationship marketing. I'm not sure why they don't do it.
WOW they are getting 100,000 cards a day. No wonder they are so far backed up
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Just two months ago the economy wait time for Beckett was 7 months. It is now 9 months.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
@coolstanley said:
WOW they are getting 100,000 cards a day. No wonder they are so far backed up
Remember the certified items ticker that was on the PSA Home page? I was tracking that for a while before it disappeared. They were averaging in the mid 20K's certified items daily. This included coins, autos, photos, etc. and the offices in CA, NJ, Paris and Asian Countries. One step forward, five steps backwards.
You guys are all nuts if you think these price increases ever go back to where they were !! Bulk will never drop below $20 again. I do see them throwing out now of the promo deals like the one where Barry and Jerry rice cards had a special
I don't know when this hobby and card grading explosion will end, but nothing is permanent. In the meantime, have some patience. All news to me regarding PSA receiving 100,000 cards a day. Forget the grading, just the storage of these cards is a huge undertaking.
I do not have those answers, only saying to be careful as the larger the boom the larger and longer the bust.
Organic rise in prices occurring over years (in this case - both sale prices of cards and PSA sub costs) are healthy, sublimation as has occurred recently is not. Not saying doom imminent but the hotter something burns the quicker it burns out. Boom and Bust is natural order of things.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
no. they aren't in the storage business. if they are focusing on this, somethings fundamentally wrong.
My angle on this is, you start building your collection of cards for your submission. You do this based on a cost analysis you are doing in your mind. Would this card be worth submitting for $10 or $12? Yes, so you purchase this for $40, that for $20. You invest A LOT of money in a batch and then you are ready. Then the price of the service you need to make your cards sellable at the price you need goes up 100%. I just sat down with a batch of about 55 cards to prepare my order. I put together an order one month ago for $12 a card but the ones I planned to submit today were the $10 variety at that time. I wasn't thinking maybe I should not wait one month to submit because the price that already went up will go up another 100%. I wasn't thinking when I bought the cards, maybe I shouldn't buy these because perhaps the price to submit them will go up 100% and it will end up being a non-profitable venture. It's just a knife to the gut. Sure, it works well with their goals of reducing submissions and twice as much money for the same thing is nice. But for customers like me, they are costing me a lot of money. I'm realizing tonight because of this I have made horrible business decisions. Their newfound 100% additional take in fee per cards means my loss and I can submit and lose money or just sit here with a stack of cards and lose money getting zero return on my investment. But lesson learned, quit buying raw cards to submit.
yeah, definitely food for thought, but it really just entails rethinking what you buy...if we know $20 is the minimum grading fee, then we have to try to be sure that the raw cards we buy will still be worth submitting at $20 per -- if not, then we can't buy them with the intent to grade them. I got out 700 cards in the month leading up to the price increase because I thought an increase was coming once the news of Nat purchasing the company was announced. It was the quickest way to make a quick increase in the value of the company, and let's face it -- $10 to get cards graded that could be worth $200 or so was too low. I am now putting another order together, at the new $20/card level and I am pretty much only putting in cards that will be worth at least $100 if they get a PSA 9 grade (lots of Jordans, Kobes, Metal Universe, etc)...I am fine turning $20 into $100 minimum per card -- it adds up fast. I have a house full of cards from the 80's, 90's and early 2000s (all sports and lots of non-sports), so there is still a good deal of money to be made on the stars and rookies from these years at a $20 submission cost...
How much longer until $30 a card minimum? Glad I sent mine in while they were $12.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
How the market has changed over the years. When I first looked into grading out my 1969 baseball set around 2000, people on here said I was nuts for grading out commons and trying to complete a newer set with all graded cards. They weren't even sold on the concept of grading anything but Mantles, Mays, Ruths and other blue chip cards. Now everyone is sending in their favorite 1988 Jose Uribe cards.
I do think things will stabilize at some point down the road. Many factors will go into the pricing landscape including inflation, demand and PSA capacity. I'm sure PSA will continually adjust their pricing to reflect their backlog and cost of doing business.
Thank you, Todd, for posting in response to this thread. I'm excited by the "set registry members have not been forgotten" comment, and I'm sure you folks will get the current situation under control sooner rather than later. I, for one, will be waiting on the other side to resume my somewhat unhealthy relationship with all things set registry-ish (that's gotta be a word).
Stay safe in the (hopefully) waning days of the pandemic.
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
considering other grading companies are there already, or close to it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if we see $25 or $30 for bulk a year from now
IMO, they'll still do some quarterly specials around the $10 per card range or the registry will die. May take a year+ to get them back, but I think they have to do something to keep the registry going.
Quarterly specials at 10 dollar, per card will finish with the quarter. They can’t change prices in the middle of the quarter, but let’s see what happen in next quarter
There are plans being designed right now specifically for Registry members. Rest assured, you all are not forgotten!
I hadn't had a chance to check the new increased supersize holder grading fees since the end of February until now. Ouch! When you consider shipping to and from Newport Beach plus tax too, the minimum cost to have a supersize card graded now is closer to $150 than it it to $100. I don't remember what it was before, but I think it was something like $25 to $30? I am shocked that it is set at 5 times the minimum for a standard holder. Something doesn't seem right in that math. I wonder how much this will affect the asking price of lower end items that are already in supersize holders?
Raise prices, offer more services, and lower expectations. This is the response I have seen from PSA on the service side of their business. I would be curious to see if there have been similar changes to the hiring process. As for what would I have liked PSA to do differently. Do away with all service levels below regular until you were caught up. And then add back only what you could process. And stop adding new services. I am talking to you Funko pop. What I wouldn't do is keep advertising on my home page value submissions and discount services. When I just raised my prices and can't keep up with the orders paying $100 a card regular. But I do not answer to the share holders or board members.
OK, fine, but you've seen, if you read almost any posts, people bemoaning the fact that now it costs them $20 to get their cards graded when it should be $6 like it used to be a couple of years ago. These people are going to get far more upset if you make the minimum $100. Plus, have you noticed anyone here say they aren't going to pay the current prices? The only complaints I've seen are about the inability of finding CS 1s to submit in. I'm sure PSA is hoping that when the economy fully reopens submissions will slow down so they can get a chance to get up. It's got to be a tremendous liability having millions of cards in various stages of grading that haven't even been paid for yet.
Beckett only charges an extra $8 for supersize holders.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
This one speaks to me. One of my subs from last August finally popped. I am quite a good grader of cards myself. The ENTIRE order has me scratching my head. I will take a look at every card closely once I get them in hand, but I have a feeling a lot of them will be selling for premiums for the grade.
"But I do not answer to the share holders or board members."
I don't think PSA does anymore either. They are no longer on the NYSE.
I think that this discussion illustrates the health of the hobby. when people are paying these prices to grade cards and the biggest problem is having enough card savers, it is a white-hot market.
I was around for the boom of the late 80's and this is far beyond that.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
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Completely different this go round.
It used to be regular people buying packs, they were readily available at the corner gas station, you also had the option of checking out a LCS.
Now you have people finding out when the shelves at Target get stocked and running in and buying everything up all at once.
If/when the rich investors tire of gobbling up all the 10's a lot of small time people could take a big financial hit.
I am happy that I am done collecting for the most part.
did not read all 49 posts - but my theory is the price increase will make it WORSE for the time being as folks will rush to get more things in before the next price increase....then it should slow down..;..