eBay April 1st fees for Coins & Bullion category - I changed my mind

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 1:46PM

At first I thought this was interesting. LOL. But then I looked at the current non-store prices and they really haven't changed. I'm not sure when they added the Bullion rate. That seems new, but it also appears to be currently in effect.

In the Spring Update, eBay fees (managed payments) on Bullion tis 12.35% if the amount is under $7500 [per item] and 7% if the total amount is over $7500 [per item]

I wonder if they are trying to discourage bullion sales.

Also for coins (except bullion)
12.55% on total amount of the sale up to $7,500 calculated per item
2.35% on the portion of the sale over $7,500

If you have a store (above starter store), the fees are:

8.5% up to $4000 for coins
For Bullion
7% if under $1500
5% if between $1500 and $10,000
4% if over $10,000

Maybe they are trying to encourage stores????

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 1:46PM

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2021-spring/fees-update.html#m17-1-tb2

coinbuf · March 3, 2021 1:49PM

Is that for stores or for individual sellers? Nevermind I just read your link.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 1:50PM

@coinbuf said:
Is that for stores or for individual sellers?

Individual sellers. I just posted the numbers for coins and bullion if you have a store (above Starter level)

giorgio11 · March 3, 2021 1:51PM

Yeah, I closed my eBay store today. I've had enough, and I really like having my own website and playing by my own rules!

Your mileage may vary. Or not.

ChrisH821 · March 3, 2021 1:53PM

Does this mean the Ebay bullion market is dead? (for regular sellers, not the "big guys")

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 1:53PM

@giorgio11 said:
Yeah, I closed my eBay store today. I've had enough, and I really like having my own website and playing by my own rules! ebay really, really does suck.

Your mileage may vary. Or not.

The fees for the stores haven't gone up. I just think they must be trying to encourage people to pay for stores????

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 1:56PM

@1peter1223 said:

@jmlanzaf said:
In the Spring Update, eBay is raising the fees (managed payments) on Bullion to 12.35% if the amount is under $7500 [per item] and 7% if the total amount is over $7500 [per item]

This is really interesting. It makes Bullion sales somewhat expensive since coin category fees are only 8.35%

I wonder if they are trying to discourage bullion sales.

Also for coins (except bullion)
12.55% on total amount of the sale up to $7,500 calculated per item
2.35% on the portion of the sale over $7,500

Wow ! No $350 cap for Ebay store owners ?
That is a game changer .

So if someone sells a coins for $7500 they would be charged $926.25 ?
I can see A LOT of sellers pulling their listings under those terms .

Actually, there sort of is a cap. The 2.35% is essentially the processing payment. There was never a cap on the PayPal portion of your eBay fees. So, there is essentially a max on the FVF equivalent.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 1:57PM

@ChrisH821 said:
Does this mean the Ebay bullion market is dead? (for regular sellers, not the "big guys")

I don't know. The fees look lower (?) for Bullion if you have a store. Aren't bullion fees currently the same as coins?

Maybe they are really trying to push people into stores????

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 1:59PM

@1peter1223 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

The fees for the stores haven't gone up. I just think they must be trying to encourage people to pay for stores????

I have a basic store . Still a $350 cap ?

We have to do the math. Your fees are 8.5% up to $4000. So, the 6.15% is the FVF portion (2.35% is the payment processing) which makes the max $246.

ChrisH821 · March 3, 2021 2:00PM

I'm not sure, I don't sell on ebay but I can imagine a 12% fee will be very difficult to absorb on bullion margins.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 2:03PM

Now that I think about it, eBay is going to confuse a lot of people who are going to be comparing the new fees to the old eBay+PayPal fees which makes them look worse, at first glance.

If you have a store, there is essentially no change, it seems. When did they add a separate bullion rate. This is the current rate chart:

This is the April 1st update:

coinpalice · March 3, 2021 2:05PM

selling was fun when the final value fees were under 3 percent, now it's just work

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 2:06PM

@ChrisH821 said:
I'm not sure, I don't sell on ebay but I can imagine a 12% fee will be very difficult to absorb on bullion margins.

Yes, but if you have a store, it actually seems to become more economical for coins over $1500. Suddenly, you can sell Double Eagles for a total hit of only 5%. That actually could make it worthwhile. I've never sold those on eBay, I wholesale them. Mostly because under the old fee structure (9% eBay + PayPal) you were paying close to $200 per coin. At $75 per coin, it's pretty close.

I'll probably still wholesale them because the extra risk isn't worth it for $25 or $50 more.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 2:08PM

@coinpalice said:
selling was fun when the final value fees were under 3 percent, now it's just work

Dude. Do the math. It's getting closer to 3%. When FVF were 3%, PayPal was still 2.9%. That's 5.9% total. If you have Top Rated discounts, the total is now 7.5%. And if you sell bullion, it's 5% on DEs which is CHEAPER than when FVF were 3%

BUT, you have to have a store.

CoinJunkie · March 3, 2021 2:12PM

@jmlanzaf said:
Maybe they are trying to encourage stores????

Ya think?

Recurring subscription revenue is now the holy grail for many businesses.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 2:15PM

@CoinJunkie said:

@jmlanzaf said:
Maybe they are trying to encourage stores????

Ya think?

Recurring subscription revenue is now the holy grail for many businesses.

Yeah. Although I just edited my post. It appears there really isn't much of a change for coins & bullion. I hadn't realized that they added a bullion rate which is in effect NOW. [When did that happen?]

The difference in price for store/non-store in the bullion category is huge: 12.55% vs 7% with a store!

amwldcoin · March 3, 2021 2:33PM

Ya feeling that water boil yet? Just give it a few quarters and you will see the fees inch up. I would almost be willing to give good odds if I was a gambling man!

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 2:40PM

@amwldcoin said:
Ya feeling that water boil yet? Just give it a few quarters and you will see the fees inch up. I would almost be willing to give good odds if I was a gambling man!

So far, all my fees have gone down. Is this @coinstartled??? Lol

I really like this bullion rate. I may start selling bullion

amwldcoin · March 3, 2021 2:41PM

It's just the bait before the hook is set!
PS the bullion rate has always been lower than coins. I don't see much difference.

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
Ya feeling that water boil yet? Just give it a few quarters and you will see the fees inch up. I would almost be willing to give good odds if I was a gambling man!

So far, all my fees have gone down. Is this @coinstartled??? Lol

I really like this bullion rate. I may start selling bullion

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 2:49PM

@amwldcoin said:
It's just the bait before the hook is set!
PS the bullion rate has always been lower than coins. I don't see much difference.

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
Ya feeling that water boil yet? Just give it a few quarters and you will see the fees inch up. I would almost be willing to give good odds if I was a gambling man!

So far, all my fees have gone down. Is this @coinstartled??? Lol

I really like this bullion rate. I may start selling bullion

What was it? I don't remember seeing it posted until now, at least for managed payments.

I definitely don't remember a 2% rate above 1500.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 2:52PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
It's just the bait before the hook is set!
PS the bullion rate has always been lower than coins. I don't see much difference.

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
Ya feeling that water boil yet? Just give it a few quarters and you will see the fees inch up. I would almost be willing to give good odds if I was a gambling man!

So far, all my fees have gone down. Is this @coinstartled??? Lol

I really like this bullion rate. I may start selling bullion

What was it? I don't remember seeing it posted until now, at least for mathere'snaged payments.

I definitely don't remember a 2% rate above 1500.

There's no separate bullion rate here

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4122

amwldcoin · March 3, 2021 2:59PM

I've never used it, but it used to be 4-5% if I recall.

@jmlanzaf said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
It's just the bait before the hook is set!
PS the bullion rate has always been lower than coins. I don't see much difference.

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
Ya feeling that water boil yet? Just give it a few quarters and you will see the fees inch up. I would almost be willing to give good odds if I was a gambling man!

So far, all my fees have gone down. Is this @coinstartled??? Lol

I really like this bullion rate. I may start selling bullion

What was it? I don't remember seeing it posted until now, at least for mathere'snaged payments.

I definitely don't remember a 2% rate above 1500.

There's no separate bullion rate here

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4122

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 3:37PM

@amwldcoin said:
I've never used it, but it used to be 4-5% if I recall.

@jmlanzaf said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
It's just the bait before the hook is set!
PS the bullion rate has always been lower than coins. I don't see much difference.

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
Ya feeling that water boil yet? Just give it a few quarters and you will see the fees inch up. I would almost be willing to give good odds if I was a gambling man!

So far, all my fees have gone down. Is this @coinstartled??? Lol

I really like this bullion rate. I may start selling bullion

What was it? I don't remember seeing it posted until now, at least for mathere'snaged payments.

I definitely don't remember a 2% rate above 1500.

There's no separate bullion rate here

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4122

It didn't exist in 2020

ctf_error_coins · March 3, 2021 3:40PM

jm, do you spend all day every day doing math?

I'm going on almost 16 hrs of coin photography since yesterday

Kliao · March 3, 2021 4:19PM

At these rates I'm out. I rather list on the BST.

jwitten · March 3, 2021 6:07PM

My selling has slowed down to a crawl on eBay. I’ve considered closing my store subscription. But with fees like this, I wouldn’t be able to sell on eBay without the store discount. I don’t get why bullion fees are so high either.. those are always excluded from eBay bucks promos too.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 6:21PM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
jm, do you spend all day every day doing math?

I'm going on almost 16 hrs of coin photography since yesterday

I try to help the minions out. They asked me to do the math. LOL

I graded 600 papers since Friday. I wish I had time to just take pictures of coins to display on eBay, The Greatest Coin Marketplace Ever.

[I can't believe you're not on my side here. LOL]

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 6:23PM

@jwitten said:
My selling has slowed down to a crawl on eBay. I’ve considered closing my store subscription. But with fees like this, I wouldn’t be able to sell on eBay without the store discount. I don’t get why bullion fees are so high either.. those are always excluded from eBay bucks promos too.

It might be coincidental, but my eBay selling has been very busy lately. I haven't had a chance to list anything new, but old stuff that was listed has been selling steadily.

The store rate for bullion is low. 7% down to 4.5%. If you consider that 2.35% of that is the payment processing, that is pretty low. And Apmex and similar big sellers have always had a discounted rate.

They've definitely made it worthwhile to have a store.

MasonG · March 3, 2021 6:27PM

@Kliao said:
At these rates I'm out. I rather list on the BST.

I have, on occasion, purchased on the BST to sell on eBay.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 6:33PM

@MasonG said:

@Kliao said:
At these rates I'm out. I rather list on the BST.

I have, on occasion, purchased on the BST to sell on eBay.

APOSTASY!!!

LOL.

I have to admit, the 12.35% non-store rate is tough for coins. Although anyone who is in the retail business would recognize how cheap that is, especially for a low volume business. But coin margins being as crappy as they are, there aren't a lot of coins that have margins higher than that. The incremental margin nature of eBay has always been tough for coins which really need a fixed cost, high volume model.

But, the store rate, especially with Top Rated Plus discount is such a frigging bargain. I mean, you can sell double eagles for 4.5% That is crazy when you consider the number of eyeballs you get and the cost of payment processing and the guarantees you get.

jkrk · March 3, 2021 7:44PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@MasonG said:

@Kliao said:
At these rates I'm out. I rather list on the BST.

I have, on occasion, purchased on the BST to sell on eBay.

APOSTASY!!!

LOL.

I have to admit, the 12.35% non-store rate is tough for coins. Although anyone who is in the retail business would recognize how cheap that is, especially for a low volume business. But coin margins being as crappy as they are, there aren't a lot of coins that have margins higher than that. The incremental margin nature of eBay has always been tough for coins which really need a fixed cost, high volume model.

But, the store rate, especially with Top Rated Plus discount is such a frigging bargain. I mean, you can sell double eagles for 4.5% That is crazy when you consider the number of eyeballs you get and the cost of payment processing and the guarantees you get.

You're talking about listing DE's in the bullion category to get the sub 5% rate? Will that fly?

In the meantime as you say with a 5% takeout all in, E-Bay is an attractive place to market Bullion.

jmlanzaf · March 3, 2021 7:49PM

@jkrk said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@MasonG said:

@Kliao said:
At these rates I'm out. I rather list on the BST.

I have, on occasion, purchased on the BST to sell on eBay.

APOSTASY!!!

LOL.

I have to admit, the 12.35% non-store rate is tough for coins. Although anyone who is in the retail business would recognize how cheap that is, especially for a low volume business. But coin margins being as crappy as they are, there aren't a lot of coins that have margins higher than that. The incremental margin nature of eBay has always been tough for coins which really need a fixed cost, high volume model.

But, the store rate, especially with Top Rated Plus discount is such a frigging bargain. I mean, you can sell double eagles for 4.5% That is crazy when you consider the number of eyeballs you get and the cost of payment processing and the guarantees you get.

You're talking about listing DE's in the bullion category to get the sub 5% rate? Will that fly?

In the meantime as you say with a 5% takeout all in, E-Bay is an attractive place to market Bullion.

Yes, I take back what I said to you earlier. While the 8.5% doesn't seem worth it with $100 bid/ask spread, 5% makes it competitive. And if you get Top Seller plus, that's 4.5% with all the eBay guarantees built in.

I'm not talking about 64s or 65s in bullion. Au to 62s are not enough over bullion for anyone to really object, I would think. I don't know.

Personally, I don't buy/sell a lot of DEs. I'm really thinking more for silver. Lately there's a $3 to $5 bid/ask spread on silver eagles, for example. Those start to be competitive. Even 90% starts to be competitive.

jskillz95 · March 31, 2021 4:36AM

What is defined as bullion versus coin? Does eBay have its own definition of bullion? Just want to make as I don’t like the FVFs being a surprise.

jmlanzaf · March 31, 2021 4:44AM

@jskillz95 said:
What is defined as bullion versus coin? Does eBay have its own definition of bullion? Just want to make as I don’t like the FVFs being a surprise.

It has to be in the bullion category. Now, if it isn't actually "bullion" they can shut it down and make you move it. I'm not sure exactly what definition they use. It's usually some premium over melt value.

It's a mixed bag. if you list something in bullion, customers typically can't use coupons or get/use eBay bucks.

coiner · April 6, 2021 7:31PM

How about eBay allowing proof / reverse proof / burnished AE’s being classified as coins and not bullion!

jmlanzaf · April 6, 2021 7:48PM

@coiner said:
How about eBay allowing proof / reverse proof / burnished AE’s being classified as coins and not bullion!

They seem to let you do it either way

OPA · April 6, 2021 7:49PM

@coiner said:
How about eBay allowing proof / reverse proof / burnished AE’s being classified as coins and not bullion!

They do. It's up to the seller to place them in the correct category..i/e Coins & Paper Money>Coins: US>Proof Sets
or: Coins & Paper Money > Coins: US > Dollars > Mixed Lots

jmlanzaf · April 6, 2021 7:51PM

@OPA said:

@coiner said:
How about eBay allowing proof / reverse proof / burnished AE’s being classified as coins and not bullion!

They do. It's up to the seller to place them in the correct category..i/e Coins & Paper Money>Coins: US>Proof Sets
or: Coins & Paper Money > Coins: US > Dollars > Mixed Lots

If only I knew what the correct category was. Lol. You can make a case for both.

eBay April 1st fees for Coins & Bullion category - I changed my mind

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