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Coin Week: 1907 Ultra High Relief $20 Realizes Astounding $3.6 Million in Paramount Collection Sale!

GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 18,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

1907 Ultra High Relief $20 Realizes Astounding $3.6 Million in Paramount Collection Sale
By
Numismatic Guaranty Corporation -
March 2, 2021



Rare and spectacular vintage US gold coins certified by Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) achieved extraordinary results in a Heritage Auctions sale of US coins from the Paramount Collection, held February 24, 2021.

The top lot was a 1907 Ultra High Relief, Lettered Edge $20 graded NGC PF 68 (lot 3802) that realized an astounding $3.6 million. The result set records as the highest price ever paid for an NGC-certified double eagle at auction and the highest price ever paid for any double eagle sold by Heritage Auctions.

As much a sculptural work as a coin, these initial specimens of the inaugural Saint-Gaudens double eagle reign as some of the most prized artifacts in all of US coinage. Only about 20 of the 1907 Ultra High Relief (sometimes referred to as “Extremely High Relief”) Saints are known, a format that is stunning but impractical for the mass production of coins.

Article continues in link....

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/1907-ultra-high-relief-20-realizes-astounding-3-6-million-in-paramount-collection-sale/

Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,856 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What God could do if She had money!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can make change for a twenty

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the value of the 1804 dollar and 1913 Liberty Head nickel just went up.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Forest Gump:

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 15,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2021 5:54AM

    @Treashunt said:
    Forest Gump:

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Why do you think the buyer and underbidder were "stupid"?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s pretty amazing how the bidding progressed on this lot. If i remember correctly, there were 3 bidders at or north of $2.5mm which was the book value. Seemed to never end. Very exciting and obviously shows how idiosyncratic the coin market can be.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing... the coin is stunning... I would love to see it 'in hand'.... Not bloody likely though :D Cheers, RickO

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 15,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Amazing... the coin is stunning... I would love to see it 'in hand'.... Not bloody likely though :D Cheers, RickO

    I've always thought that 1907 High Reliefs were exquisite. But having seen Ultra High Reliefs in hand, I don't appreciate the "ordinary" High Reliefs nearly as much. I'm mesmerized by the former.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld.... I will make it a point to see one on my next trips out of my area... coin shops or coin shows... got some traveling to do. Maybe in Scottsdale, they have a few coin shops. Cheers, RickO

  • TomthecoinguyTomthecoinguy Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 15,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld.... I will make it a point to see one on my next trips out of my area... coin shops or coin shows... got some traveling to do. Maybe in Scottsdale, they have a few coin shops. Cheers, RickO

    Rick, your chances of seeing a 1907 Ultra High Relief at a coin shop are very close to zero. And they're not a whole lot better at any given show, either.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Treashunt said:
    Forest Gump:

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Why do you think the buyer and underbidder were "stupid"?

    Mostly because I couldn't afford it.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 15,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Treashunt said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Treashunt said:
    Forest Gump:

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Why do you think the buyer and underbidder were "stupid"?

    Mostly because I couldn't afford it.

    Thanks for the reply, though I don't understand what one has to do with the other.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Treashunt said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Treashunt said:
    Forest Gump:

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Why do you think the buyer and underbidder were "stupid"?

    Mostly because I couldn't afford it.

    Thanks for the reply, though I don't understand what one has to do with the other.

    absolutely nothing, I guess.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,236 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    If a trade dollar has a chopmark then how can it be graded MS64? Simple - because Pcgs has chosen to grade it that way with full disclosure. Same for those initials - Pcgs has chosen to grade the balance of the coin and disclose the initials.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    Why are we discussing that other UHR in this thread?

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I had money ... That coin would be mine.

  • 1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @ricko said:
    Amazing... the coin is stunning... I would love to see it 'in hand'.... Not bloody likely though :D Cheers, RickO

    I've always thought that 1907 High Reliefs were exquisite. But having seen Ultra High Reliefs in hand, I don't appreciate the "ordinary" High Reliefs nearly as much. I'm mesmerized by the former.

    Thanks for the warning. Guess I should avoid seeing a 1907 (or was it minted the prior year as a pattern?) Ultra. High Relief.

    The comment that caught my attention in one of the UHR auction descriptions was it being likened to a small sculpture. That has always been what enticed me to acquire the various 1907 High Reliefs I have owned. I can appreciate how the UHR would push that talking point to the next level.

  • 1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2021 12:04PM

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Correct. The “Lettered Edge” reference on the holder is not literally referencing the added letters as subject of the separate thread - but made for a grin given that those letters were added to the edge as well.

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Must be soul crushing to bid $2.5 million and still not be enough...

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld... Thanks Mark... I am aware of that... but figured Scottsdale is pretty 'upscale', so maybe - however, with the scarcity, it is unlikely. Cheers, RickO

  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The way anything is, the good stuff goes for strong money. 69 and 70 Boss 9's always go for strong money.

    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @MFeld... Thanks Mark... I am aware of that... but figured Scottsdale is pretty 'upscale', so maybe - however, with the scarcity, it is unlikely. Cheers, RickO

    With only 20 or fewer known and 5 or 6 of those in museums, the chance to see one is pretty limited.

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko does have some chance of finding a normal high relief ($10-20K) at a shop but this type is different from just a high grade version of a high relief, hence the "several more zero's" price.

    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021 5:58AM

    The only case I can think of where a modern, reproduction coin looks better than the original

    And we can actually own them. :)

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    If a trade dollar has a chopmark then how can it be graded MS64? Simple - because Pcgs has chosen to grade it that way with full disclosure. Same for those initials - Pcgs has chosen to grade the balance of the coin and disclose the initials.

    .
    .
    Bruce, I didn’t realize the initials grading guideline that you shared. In your opinion, does that mean the 1870-S Three Dollar could get a true grade for the balance of the coin. I have thought in the past PCGS would give it a genuine grade with graffiti.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,236 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    If a trade dollar has a chopmark then how can it be graded MS64? Simple - because Pcgs has chosen to grade it that way with full disclosure. Same for those initials - Pcgs has chosen to grade the balance of the coin and disclose the initials.

    .
    .
    Bruce, I didn’t realize the initials grading guideline that you shared. In your opinion, does that mean the 1870-S Three Dollar could get a true grade for the balance of the coin. I have thought in the past PCGS would give it a genuine grade with graffiti.

    That’s way more ‘in your face’ than historic initials on the edge. But I could imagine a scenario where they put a grade on it and say ‘museum damage’.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Currin said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    If a trade dollar has a chopmark then how can it be graded MS64? Simple - because Pcgs has chosen to grade it that way with full disclosure. Same for those initials - Pcgs has chosen to grade the balance of the coin and disclose the initials.

    .
    .
    Bruce, I didn’t realize the initials grading guideline that you shared. In your opinion, does that mean the 1870-S Three Dollar could get a true grade for the balance of the coin. I have thought in the past PCGS would give it a genuine grade with graffiti.

    That’s way more ‘in your face’ than historic initials on the edge. But I could imagine a scenario where they put a grade on it and say ‘museum damage’.

    So what is to stop them from using "parking lot damage" as a reason to straight grade coins?

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Currin said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    If a trade dollar has a chopmark then how can it be graded MS64? Simple - because Pcgs has chosen to grade it that way with full disclosure. Same for those initials - Pcgs has chosen to grade the balance of the coin and disclose the initials.

    .
    .
    Bruce, I didn’t realize the initials grading guideline that you shared. In your opinion, does that mean the 1870-S Three Dollar could get a true grade for the balance of the coin. I have thought in the past PCGS would give it a genuine grade with graffiti.

    That’s way more ‘in your face’ than historic initials on the edge. But I could imagine a scenario where they put a grade on it and say ‘museum damage’.

    So what is to stop them from using "parking lot damage" as a reason to straight grade coins?

    Market non-acceptance and damage to their brand, maybe?

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2021 6:47AM

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Currin said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    If a trade dollar has a chopmark then how can it be graded MS64? Simple - because Pcgs has chosen to grade it that way with full disclosure. Same for those initials - Pcgs has chosen to grade the balance of the coin and disclose the initials.

    .
    .
    Bruce, I didn’t realize the initials grading guideline that you shared. In your opinion, does that mean the 1870-S Three Dollar could get a true grade for the balance of the coin. I have thought in the past PCGS would give it a genuine grade with graffiti.

    That’s way more ‘in your face’ than historic initials on the edge. But I could imagine a scenario where they put a grade on it and say ‘museum damage’.

    So what is to stop them from using "parking lot damage" as a reason to straight grade coins?

    Market non-acceptance and damage to their brand, maybe?

    Agreed, but why is "museum" damage any better than any other type of damage? Standards shouldn't change based on rarity. A standardless standard is no standard at all.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,911 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Currin said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Treashunt said:

    @Tomthecoinguy said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Think if only it stickered... :D

    Or didn’t have graffiti .. 😊

    Graffiti?

    I think is referring to the coin in this thread.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1052909/is-this-coin-worth-more-less-or-the-same/p1

    But I think that is a different coin than the one we are talking about here.

    Okay, if the ASG is engraved on the edge, how could it be graded as a 68?

    Or do they [the graders] think that it was done at the mint?

    If a trade dollar has a chopmark then how can it be graded MS64? Simple - because Pcgs has chosen to grade it that way with full disclosure. Same for those initials - Pcgs has chosen to grade the balance of the coin and disclose the initials.

    .
    .
    Bruce, I didn’t realize the initials grading guideline that you shared. In your opinion, does that mean the 1870-S Three Dollar could get a true grade for the balance of the coin. I have thought in the past PCGS would give it a genuine grade with graffiti.

    That’s way more ‘in your face’ than historic initials on the edge. But I could imagine a scenario where they put a grade on it and say ‘museum damage’.

    So what is to stop them from using "parking lot damage" as a reason to straight grade coins?

    I have not seen an image of the 1870-S $3 but there is a big difference between this type of coin and overwhelming majority of others.

    In another recent thread, I gave the example of a non-US coin with light graffiti (also initials), the unique 1898 "Single 9" South Africa pond. The incident is documented (I believe happened right after the coin was struck but not done by the Mint), it is "common knowledge" and yes, the coin is and should be considered "market acceptable". It's in an NGC MS-63 holder but probably "net graded".

    The distinction should be whether those in the market actually in the position to buy the coin think so or not. I'm not so my opinion should not and doesn't matter.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1870-S Three Dollar is presently owned by Harry Bass Foundation and currently on display at the American Numismatic Association. Louis Eliasberg purchased the specimen from Stack’s in a private transaction in January, 1946 for $11,550. It has an estimated grade of EF40. The coin is not in choice condition due to its "pebbled" appearance meaning the coin could have been used as jewelry. In addition, the numerals “893” are scratched upside down on the reverse. It would be interesting to see how PCGS would handle the certification of this coin. Would they be bold enough not to give it a grade? According to CoinFacts, the last appearance in auction was October 1982 in Eliasberg’s U.S. Gold Coin Collection Sale by Bowers & Ruddy. The coin realized a record sale price of $687,500. CoinFacts Values the coin at $4,000,000. There is no indication that this unique coin would be on the market anything soon.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:
    I have not seen an image of the 1870-S $3 but there is a big difference between this type of coin and overwhelming majority of others.

    In another recent thread, I gave the example of a non-US coin with light graffiti (also initials), the unique 1898 "Single 9" South Africa pond. The incident is documented (I believe happened right after the coin was struck but not done by the Mint), it is "common knowledge" and yes, the coin is and should be considered "market acceptable". It's in an NGC MS-63 holder but probably "net graded".

    The distinction should be whether those in the market actually in the position to buy the coin think so or not. I'm not so my opinion should not and doesn't matter.

    So I guess parking lot finds do qualify for novices in the market under that standard.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,911 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @WCC said:
    I have not seen an image of the 1870-S $3 but there is a big difference between this type of coin and overwhelming majority of others.

    In another recent thread, I gave the example of a non-US coin with light graffiti (also initials), the unique 1898 "Single 9" South Africa pond. The incident is documented (I believe happened right after the coin was struck but not done by the Mint), it is "common knowledge" and yes, the coin is and should be considered "market acceptable". It's in an NGC MS-63 holder but probably "net graded".

    The distinction should be whether those in the market actually in the position to buy the coin think so or not. I'm not so my opinion should not and doesn't matter.

    So I guess parking lot finds do qualify for novices in the market under that standard.

    No, you misunderstood me. The defining criteria should be what those who are actually buying the coin define as "market acceptable". 99%+ of the collector base will never be in the market for this type of coin, so why should their opinion make any difference?

    This is the same opinion I hold for much cheaper coin where the TPG really have no idea what is and isn't "market acceptable". They don't know because they can't know the preferences for all coins or series, especially by collectors not based in the United States.

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