Has anyone ever seen a plus graded coin with.....

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drddm
drddm Posts: 5,467 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Either a considerably weak strike or darkly toned?

Dave

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  • braddick
    braddick Posts: 25,190 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have not and would be surprised if I ever did.

  • CoinJunkie
    CoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @drddm said:
    Either a considerably weak strike or darkly toned?

    Yes, I've seen Roosie dimes graded 67+ with mushy strikes. The toning was generally spectacular, however.

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2021 6:14PM
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    Your qualifiers are subject to interpretation. However, yes, on quite a few occasions to “darkly toned” and possibly/probably to “considerably weak strike”.

    Think about it this way - if you can easily envision a particular coin as a 64, but for weakness in strike or dark toning, why not a 63 in some instances or a 63+ in others? Or if the coin should be really heavily penalized, why not a 62+ instead of a 63?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • drddm
    drddm Posts: 5,467 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    According to PCGS... "Plus Grades" exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade and constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade.”

    So it sounds like, as long as the considerably weakly struck or darkly toned coin has exceptional eye appeal, it can get a plus within the designated grade.

    However, doesn’t PCGS take into account strike when grading a coin?

    How much consideration do they give to strike when compared to the other characteristics that go into a coin’s grade?

    Rank these in order of highest to lowest importance (in your opinion) for how PCGS grades a coin... strike, luster, surface wear (circulated coins), and eye appeal?

    Dave

  • CoinJunkie
    CoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BryceM , that's a really clean and lustrous 22-S Peace! It seems that weakly struck coins often have excellent luster. It also seems they were often struck in San Francisco. :)

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @pointfivezero.... :oB) Cheers, RickO

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CoinJunkie said:
    @BryceM , that's a really clean and lustrous 22-S Peace! It seems that weakly struck coins often have excellent luster. It also seems they were often struck in San Francisco. :)

    It’s often true that really lustrous coins often come from worn dies..... but that’s not the same thing as weakly struck. Brand-new dies can impart really sharp detail, a satiny type of luster, and still be weakly struck in the centers. I have a photo of a Peace dollar like this. I’ll try to find it.

  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021 1:56PM
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    @pointfivezero that's not dark.......That's really nice and probably should have received a star.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • coastaljerseyguy
    coastaljerseyguy Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Does the year & mintage's overall strike and luster play into the Plus consideration? An 81-S Morgan with a great strike and blooming luster (as common as they come) should be difficult to get a Plus, but wouldn't that same strike and luster on a 92-O deserve to get the Plus, and maybe even a bump in grade?

  • BAJJERFAN
    BAJJERFAN Posts: 31,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CoinJunkie said:
    @BryceM , that's a really clean and lustrous 22-S Peace! It seems that weakly struck coins often have excellent luster. It also seems they were often struck in San Francisco. :)

    Apparently the only coins that the SF mint did a good job on were the Morgans.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • pointfivezero
    pointfivezero Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Walkerfan said:
    @pointfivezero that's not dark.......That's really nice and probably should have received a star.

    Thanks @Walkerfan. For some reason, I think @ricko begs to differ. :)

  • cnncoins
    cnncoins Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭
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    I think, over the years, PCGS (and NGC) have loosened up on the strike factor. As the graders (and services) have learned the strike characteristics of certain issues, they have been more lenient on the strike and graded the coin based on marks, etc. This has been an issue for many years
    when it comes to grading coins. As an example, do you grade a 1919-D Walker that is flatly struck (as it came from the mint), but is
    technically perfect, a 63....or 64....or even higher? The same can be said for an 1892-O Morgan which is always very weak over the ear. Many other issues can be used as examples. IMHO If a coin is weakly stuck but "as it came from the mint",
    it should be graded with little regard to the actual strike. The market will ultimately determine the "value", and certainly value a coin with a better strike verses
    a weak strike, all other things being equal. Opinions?

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @cnncoins said:
    I think, over the years, PCGS (and NGC) have loosened up on the strike factor. As the graders (and services) have learned the strike characteristics of certain issues, they have been more lenient on the strike and graded the coin based on marks, etc. This has been an issue for many years
    when it comes to grading coins. As an example, do you grade a 1919-D Walker that is flatly struck (as it came from the mint), but is
    technically perfect, a 63....or 64....or even higher? The same can be said for an 1892-O Morgan which is always very weak over the ear. Many other issues can be used as examples. IMHO If a coin is weakly stuck but "as it came from the mint",
    it should be graded with little regard to the actual strike. The market will ultimately determine the "value", and certainly value a coin with a better strike verses
    a weak strike, all other things being equal. Opinions?

    Opinion - you are correct. And I think many collectors are under the mistaken impression that strike carries more weight in the grading of coins than it actually does.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • edwardjulio
    edwardjulio Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2021 1:46PM
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    NLH

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
    ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN

  • P0CKETCHANGE
    P0CKETCHANGE Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Strike is weighted at ~15% of a coin’s total grade, according to PCGS grading guidelines.

    Here’s an older thread about it: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/989202/60-surface-preservation-15-strike-15-luster-10-eye-appeal

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @P0CKETCHANGE said:
    Strike is weighted at ~15% of a coin’s total grade, according to PCGS grading guidelines.

    Here’s an older thread about it: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/989202/60-surface-preservation-15-strike-15-luster-10-eye-appeal

    Regardless of what the guidelines indicate - and the linked thread reads “60% Surface Preservation /15% Strike / 15% Luster /10% Eye Appeal - I believe that that generally speaking, eye appeal plays a much larger role and luster, somewhat of a larger one, relative to strike.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • crazyhounddog
    crazyhounddog Posts: 14,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021 12:20PM
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    I have more than this😊












    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Meltdown
    Meltdown Posts: 9,284 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021 12:45PM
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    Not sure what to make of this one. I like the eye appeal but nowhere near a FBL for a strong strike.
    The hit on the chin is a minus in my opinion.
    Graded MS65+
    .

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