Would need to see it in hand. From the photos there might be a few to many little abrasions for CAC to sticker at the 67 level. As far as crossing I do not think PCGS is very liberal with the Prooflike designation. Nice coin.
At that level I’d be curious about the lack of a bean as well. And, whether fair or not, I’d thus assume it would not cross at grade with PCGS. NGC standards are similar to PCGS but I don’t think they rate everything with the same weight as PCGS.
I'd trust the judgment of NGC and HA all day long. They don't write up a description which sounds like an endorsement unless the coin is worthy of the grade.
1868 Gold Dollar, MS67★
The Finest Prooflike of This Date Known
1868 G$1 MS67★ Prooflike NGC. Only 10,500 proof gold dollars were produced for this year. This piece displays sparkling, reflective fields on each side; obviously an early strike that was minted before the initial die polish wore off. Additionally, the devices are frosted and give the coin a cameo-like appearance, quite unusual for a business strike. NGC has certified 19 1868 dollars as Prooflike, and this piece is the finest (11/20). As one might expect from the Superb grade, there are virtually no abrasions on either side of this magnificent gold coin. Census: 1 in 67 (1 in 67★ ) Prooflike, 0 finer (11/20).
Ex: Long Beach Signature (Heritage, 5/2009), lot 1484.
@logger7 said:
I'd trust the judgment of NGC and HA all day long. They don't write up a description which sounds like an endorsement unless the coin is worthy of the grade.
1868 Gold Dollar, MS67★
The Finest Prooflike of This Date Known
1868 G$1 MS67★ Prooflike NGC. Only 10,500 proof gold dollars were produced for this year. This piece displays sparkling, reflective fields on each side; obviously an early strike that was minted before the initial die polish wore off. Additionally, the devices are frosted and give the coin a cameo-like appearance, quite unusual for a business strike. NGC has certified 19 1868 dollars as Prooflike, and this piece is the finest (11/20). As one might expect from the Superb grade, there are virtually no abrasions on either side of this magnificent gold coin. Census: 1 in 67 (1 in 67★ ) Prooflike, 0 finer (11/20).
Ex: Long Beach Signature (Heritage, 5/2009), lot 1484.
I would agree that the coin is very nice but that was not his question. If he wants PCGS CAC at this same grade and designation that would be tough to achieve. If he did get it I would think the price would triple. That being said calling the coin a 65 is ludicrous in my opinion.
From what I've heard HA regularly sends coins that may pass to cac, so probably did not pass as others suggested. Just not pq enough for cac to sticker it. The PL and the star are big pluses.
@AlanSki said:
Not everything needs to CAC. Who cares if it doesn't have one man's opinion if he "thinks" it needs his sticker, I don't.
If you want the best - you need to remove your emotion. thank you for your opinon, I actually truly value it. I think the coin is pretty sweet -I Think heritage and NCG are exaggerating on the superlatives but I would say it actually is in the top 5 known. This Covid shit is messing up eveyrones game.
I have only looked at a few, but it seems all the 1868's have the same die break below the bust from rim to hairline. I guess because of the low mintage there may have only been one die pair. Is this true?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
That is a very nice gold coin. I do not know if it has been to CAC.... people seem to assume it has. I think it has a good chance to cross at PCGS... maybe not with a plus. If I were to acquire it, I would keep it as is. When planning to sell, then I would cross and CAC. Cheers, RickO
more information is always helpful, go to the NGC cert check page and view the images there. whether it will cross to PCGS, who knows from the images. whether it would pass at CAC, who knows from the images. all I know from the images is that at the right price I wouldn't be embarrassed to own it.
I didn’t look at the holder, just the coin. It is an awesome specimen and a treasure of preservation. I personally don’t see a grade ceiling here, just assumptions that “nothing is perfect”.
@AlanSki said:
Not everything needs to CAC. Who cares if it doesn't have one man's opinion if he "thinks" it needs his sticker, I don't.
I agree you don’t need to care, and many others agree with you. But the bottom line is “The Market” cares, and the market, right or wrong, as a generalization will pay more for a coin with a CAC than one without. I’d bet that this coin HAS INDEED been to CAC, and FAILED, due either to not being solid as a 67, or something is off with the surfaces that CAC does not like.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@AlanSki said:
Not everything needs to CAC. Who cares if it doesn't have one man's opinion if he "thinks" it needs his sticker, I don't.
I agree you don’t need to care, and many others agree with you. But the bottom line is “The Market” cares, and the market, right or wrong, as a generalization will pay more for a coin with a CAC than one without. I’d bet that this coin HAS INDEED been to CAC, and FAILED, due either to not being solid as a 67, or something is off with the surfaces that CAC does not like.
Sad.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@AlanSki said:
Not everything needs to CAC. Who cares if it doesn't have one man's opinion if he "thinks" it needs his sticker, I don't.
I agree you don’t need to care, and many others agree with you. But the bottom line is “The Market” cares, and the market, right or wrong, as a generalization will pay more for a coin with a CAC than one without. I’d bet that this coin HAS INDEED been to CAC, and FAILED, due either to not being solid as a 67, or something is off with the surfaces that CAC does not like.
Comments
Would it cross? Why does it not have a green bean?
Would need to see it in hand. From the photos there might be a few to many little abrasions for CAC to sticker at the 67 level. As far as crossing I do not think PCGS is very liberal with the Prooflike designation. Nice coin.
Let us know after you attempt the cross.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
At that level I’d be curious about the lack of a bean as well. And, whether fair or not, I’d thus assume it would not cross at grade with PCGS. NGC standards are similar to PCGS but I don’t think they rate everything with the same weight as PCGS.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I'd trust the judgment of NGC and HA all day long. They don't write up a description which sounds like an endorsement unless the coin is worthy of the grade.
1868 Gold Dollar, MS67★
The Finest Prooflike of This Date Known
1868 G$1 MS67★ Prooflike NGC. Only 10,500 proof gold dollars were produced for this year. This piece displays sparkling, reflective fields on each side; obviously an early strike that was minted before the initial die polish wore off. Additionally, the devices are frosted and give the coin a cameo-like appearance, quite unusual for a business strike. NGC has certified 19 1868 dollars as Prooflike, and this piece is the finest (11/20). As one might expect from the Superb grade, there are virtually no abrasions on either side of this magnificent gold coin. Census: 1 in 67 (1 in 67★ ) Prooflike, 0 finer (11/20).
Ex: Long Beach Signature (Heritage, 5/2009), lot 1484.
I would agree that the coin is very nice but that was not his question. If he wants PCGS CAC at this same grade and designation that would be tough to achieve. If he did get it I would think the price would triple. That being said calling the coin a 65 is ludicrous in my opinion.
From what I've heard HA regularly sends coins that may pass to cac, so probably did not pass as others suggested. Just not pq enough for cac to sticker it. The PL and the star are big pluses.
Handsome little coin.
My thoughts. It's a stunning coin.
The scratch on the cheek bothers me.
Nice looking coin, but 67 is a very high bar.
I would not call that a scratch, more like a brush mark from another coin.
Fair enough.
It bothers me.
Very high likelihood that the coin didn’t cross and JA didn’t like it. Otherwise it would be in a PCGS holder with a green sticker.
Not everything needs to CAC. Who cares if it doesn't have one man's opinion if he "thinks" it needs his sticker, I don't.
If you want the best - you need to remove your emotion. thank you for your opinon, I actually truly value it. I think the coin is pretty sweet -I Think heritage and NCG are exaggerating on the superlatives but I would say it actually is in the top 5 known. This Covid shit is messing up eveyrones game.
I have only looked at a few, but it seems all the 1868's have the same die break below the bust from rim to hairline. I guess because of the low mintage there may have only been one die pair. Is this true?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
That is a very nice gold coin. I do not know if it has been to CAC.... people seem to assume it has. I think it has a good chance to cross at PCGS... maybe not with a plus. If I were to acquire it, I would keep it as is. When planning to sell, then I would cross and CAC. Cheers, RickO
more information is always helpful, go to the NGC cert check page and view the images there. whether it will cross to PCGS, who knows from the images. whether it would pass at CAC, who knows from the images. all I know from the images is that at the right price I wouldn't be embarrassed to own it.
I didn’t look at the holder, just the coin. It is an awesome specimen and a treasure of preservation. I personally don’t see a grade ceiling here, just assumptions that “nothing is perfect”.
I agree you don’t need to care, and many others agree with you. But the bottom line is “The Market” cares, and the market, right or wrong, as a generalization will pay more for a coin with a CAC than one without. I’d bet that this coin HAS INDEED been to CAC, and FAILED, due either to not being solid as a 67, or something is off with the surfaces that CAC does not like.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Sad.
OP - ask via PM for Mark Feld to examine the coin for you and provide his opinion.
But true