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Abuelo · November 20, 2020 6:31PM

The upright is rarer. But Hooknecks are by far more popular given the million varieties included in the book. People want to collect the varieties. It is like collecting Bust Cap halfs but more fun...

PillarDollarCollector · November 20, 2020 6:33PM

PillarDollarCollector · November 20, 2020 6:33PM

Abuelo · November 20, 2020 7:42PM

Well, how much depends on condition and eye appeal. But generally speaking, a nice upright 1824 is expensive. Now remember that the dealer is in this to make a living and it is impossible to make a business survive with less than 30% mark over purchase, if not close to 50%.

PillarDollarCollector · November 20, 2020 7:51PM

PillarDollarCollector · November 20, 2020 7:52PM

Abuelo · November 20, 2020 8:01PM

I think it was a good price (irrespective of how much he or she paid) and looks like a solid coin for 45. You noticed the AU58 sold for over 2100, and the Foxlair that was cleaned, for 423. I'll say you did very well.

PillarDollarCollector · November 20, 2020 8:09PM

Abuelo · November 20, 2020 8:16PM

It is a difficult coin and yours is a nice example. If you do not have it, you need to get a copy of Resplandores so you can get an idea on rarity of these coins. While the book could be updated, it is a great reference.

PillarDollarCollector · November 20, 2020 9:42PM

Abuelo · November 20, 2020 9:56PM

https://worldnumismatics.com/product/resplandores-cap-and-rays-8-reales-of-the-republic-of-mexico-1823-1897-by-mike-dunigan-and-j-b-parker/

bidask · November 20, 2020 10:42PM

Here is a pic of mine .

Abuelo · November 21, 2020 5:23AM

@bidask you posted an 1826, not 1824

bidask · November 21, 2020 5:38AM

@Abuelo said:
@bidask you posted an 1826, not 1824

I have been working to hard

PillarDollarCollector · November 21, 2020 10:34AM

bidask · November 21, 2020 12:27PM

Abuelo · November 21, 2020 4:58PM

That's what I am talking about @bidask

bidask · November 21, 2020 5:11PM

@Abuelo said:
That's what I am talking about @bidask

Thank you ... AU 50

TwoKopeiki · November 21, 2020 5:57PM

Dan, looks to be a nice, accurately graded coin. I would send it to PCGS for conservation, if it was mine. There seem to be spots of PVC hiding in the obv (eagle) legend.

PillarDollarCollector · November 21, 2020 6:16PM

Can they remove PVC and if they do would it still grade the same grade?

TwoKopeiki · November 21, 2020 6:27PM

Yes and it should unless the surfaces underneath have been affected.

Abuelo · November 21, 2020 9:26PM

@TwoKopeiki if it is PVC is a lot and I would be shocked if they graded it. Can it be tone?

TwoKopeiki · November 22, 2020 8:33AM

@Abuelo said:
@TwoKopeiki if it is PVC is a lot and I would be shocked if they graded it. Can it be tone?

Green toning by itself without any other color present? Very unlikely.

Again, I could be wrong, but it looks like PVC to me. And if it is - its very easy to fix. But it should be addressed before putting the coin in long term storage, as the contamination will continue to spread.

Abuelo · November 22, 2020 9:19AM

When you get to my age @TwoKopeiki you will understand my inability to see correctly you may be right. I thought was bluish...

bidask · November 22, 2020 10:40AM

Uh oh....🤭

MrEureka · November 23, 2020 6:09PM

@bidask said:
Uh oh....🤭

Actually might be just run of the mill green crud, not PVC. And it looks completely stable at this point, unlikely to damage the coin. HOWEVER, the trivial tooling done to remove (probably most of) the green crud bothers me a little bit. I'd leave it alone and replace it with a better one when the opportunity presents itself.

bidask · November 23, 2020 6:13PM

Tooling ! 🙁..... uh oh

PillarDollarCollector · November 23, 2020 6:24PM

scubafuel · November 23, 2020 6:27PM

I don’t see tooling. I see what looks like little fissures in the planchet under some of the green, but it does not look like intentional damage.

bidask · November 23, 2020 7:26PM

@scubafuel said:
I don’t see tooling. I see what looks like little fissures in the planchet under some of the green, but it does not look like intentional damage.

Hope so

jgenn · November 25, 2020 6:12PM

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
The Upright seems to sell for less money I don't get it.

Rarity alone does not equate to value for many series. High grade + eye appeal in the current environment is paramount. Since the Cap and Rays series is so vast I suspect many collectors just want to type collect so they will pay up for a hookneck and a nice pretty high grade upright eagle and be done with it.

PillarDollarCollector · November 25, 2020 8:35PM

realeswatcher · November 26, 2020 3:06PM

@jgenn said:

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
The Upright seems to sell for less money I don't get it.

Since the Cap and Rays series is so vast I suspect many collectors just want to type collect so they will pay up for a hookneck and a nice pretty high grade upright eagle and be done with it.

As a standalone comparison, there are ABSOLUTELY far more 1824Mo hookneck 8R than 1824Mo upright eagle 8R out there. However, as a TYPE - Hooknecks are obviously many times rarer than upright eagles (and considered more "iconic").

That said, they do make a nice complement to the hookneck for an 1824 set... and as stated, they are much rarer in absolute numbers. Along those lines, I'm guessing, there have been times when they go for rather strong money on eBay - though it seems somewhat inconsistent. As such, I'll accumulated a few when reasonably priced.

@Abuelo said:
I think it was a good price (irrespective of how much he or she paid) and looks like a solid coin for 45. You noticed the AU58 sold for over 2100, and the Foxlair that was cleaned, for 423. I'll say you did very well.

This XF45 is in fact a stronger coin in terms of wear than that Foxlair piece (which is NO better than XF40 detail!!), and has nice surfaces. Not at all a bad purchase.

The issue on this date, as with many early Mo C&R, is finding a decent strike on the eagle...

I actually own the following piece, which despite the gouge, weak center, and kind of funky-as-made rim (similar to bidask's piece), is LEGIT AU wearwise and white with decent luster... for those who may prefer such a state:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/mexico/world-coins/mexico-republic-8-reales-1824-mo-jm-au-details-scratch-pcgs-/a/3064-33494.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

realeswatcher · November 26, 2020 3:09PM

@scubafuel said:
I don’t see tooling. I see what looks like little fissures in the planchet under some of the green, but it does not look like intentional damage.

Agreed. That's planchet stress presenting as ghosting of the legend.

PillarDollarCollector · November 26, 2020 3:16PM

Abuelo · November 29, 2020 6:16AM

I think you did just fine.

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