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Mexico 1824 upright eagle 8 reales

TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 1, 2024 7:25PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

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Comments

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The upright is rarer. But Hooknecks are by far more popular given the million varieties included in the book. People want to collect the varieties. It is like collecting Bust Cap halfs but more fun...

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, how much depends on condition and eye appeal. But generally speaking, a nice upright 1824 is expensive. Now remember that the dealer is in this to make a living and it is impossible to make a business survive with less than 30% mark over purchase, if not close to 50%.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it was a good price (irrespective of how much he or she paid) and looks like a solid coin for 45. You noticed the AU58 sold for over 2100, and the Foxlair that was cleaned, for 423. I'll say you did very well.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is a difficult coin and yours is a nice example. If you do not have it, you need to get a copy of Resplandores so you can get an idea on rarity of these coins. While the book could be updated, it is a great reference.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:57PM

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://worldnumismatics.com/product/resplandores-cap-and-rays-8-reales-of-the-republic-of-mexico-1823-1897-by-mike-dunigan-and-j-b-parker/

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a pic of mine .

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask you posted an 1826, not 1824 :D

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Abuelo said:
    @bidask you posted an 1826, not 1824 :D

    I have been working to hard :|

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:58PM

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's what I am talking about @bidask

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Abuelo said:
    That's what I am talking about @bidask

    Thank you ... AU 50

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020 5:23PM

    Dan, looks to be a nice, accurately graded coin. I would send it to PCGS for conservation, if it was mine. There seem to be spots of PVC hiding in the obv (eagle) legend.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can they remove PVC and if they do would it still grade the same grade?

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes and it should unless the surfaces underneath have been affected.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki if it is PVC is a lot and I would be shocked if they graded it. Can it be tone?

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2020 7:37AM

    @Abuelo said:
    @TwoKopeiki if it is PVC is a lot and I would be shocked if they graded it. Can it be tone?

    Green toning by itself without any other color present? Very unlikely.

    Again, I could be wrong, but it looks like PVC to me. And if it is - its very easy to fix. But it should be addressed before putting the coin in long term storage, as the contamination will continue to spread.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When you get to my age @TwoKopeiki you will understand my inability to see correctly :D you may be right. I thought was bluish...

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Uh oh....🤭

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,256 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:
    Uh oh....🤭

    Actually might be just run of the mill green crud, not PVC. And it looks completely stable at this point, unlikely to damage the coin. HOWEVER, the trivial tooling done to remove (probably most of) the green crud bothers me a little bit. I'd leave it alone and replace it with a better one when the opportunity presents itself.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tooling ! 🙁..... uh oh

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:58PM

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  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t see tooling. I see what looks like little fissures in the planchet under some of the green, but it does not look like intentional damage.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @scubafuel said:
    I don’t see tooling. I see what looks like little fissures in the planchet under some of the green, but it does not look like intentional damage.

    Hope so

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • jgennjgenn Posts: 744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KingOfMorganDollar said:
    The Upright seems to sell for less money I don't get it.

    Rarity alone does not equate to value for many series. High grade + eye appeal in the current environment is paramount. Since the Cap and Rays series is so vast I suspect many collectors just want to type collect so they will pay up for a hookneck and a nice pretty high grade upright eagle and be done with it.

    Amazing 8s * Silver Dollars of '60 * My World Crown Affair
  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2020 9:05AM

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  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    @jgenn said:

    @KingOfMorganDollar said:
    The Upright seems to sell for less money I don't get it.

    Since the Cap and Rays series is so vast I suspect many collectors just want to type collect so they will pay up for a hookneck and a nice pretty high grade upright eagle and be done with it.

    As a standalone comparison, there are ABSOLUTELY far more 1824Mo hookneck 8R than 1824Mo upright eagle 8R out there. However, as a TYPE - Hooknecks are obviously many times rarer than upright eagles (and considered more "iconic").

    That said, they do make a nice complement to the hookneck for an 1824 set... and as stated, they are much rarer in absolute numbers. Along those lines, I'm guessing, there have been times when they go for rather strong money on eBay - though it seems somewhat inconsistent. As such, I'll accumulated a few when reasonably priced.

    @Abuelo said:
    I think it was a good price (irrespective of how much he or she paid) and looks like a solid coin for 45. You noticed the AU58 sold for over 2100, and the Foxlair that was cleaned, for 423. I'll say you did very well.

    This XF45 is in fact a stronger coin in terms of wear than that Foxlair piece (which is NO better than XF40 detail!!), and has nice surfaces. Not at all a bad purchase.

    The issue on this date, as with many early Mo C&R, is finding a decent strike on the eagle...

    I actually own the following piece, which despite the gouge, weak center, and kind of funky-as-made rim (similar to bidask's piece), is LEGIT AU wearwise and white with decent luster... for those who may prefer such a state:
    https://coins.ha.com/itm/mexico/world-coins/mexico-republic-8-reales-1824-mo-jm-au-details-scratch-pcgs-/a/3064-33494.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    @scubafuel said:
    I don’t see tooling. I see what looks like little fissures in the planchet under some of the green, but it does not look like intentional damage.

    Agreed. That's planchet stress presenting as ghosting of the legend.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2022 4:59PM

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  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you did just fine.

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    This thread WAS about Mexico 1824-Mo upright eagle 8 Reales...

    This piece, decent detail but not amazing, and obviously impaired, went for fairly strong money.

    Prices on these do seem to vary...

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