@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
The mint said 130,000 visitors over about a 30 minute period, if I recall correctly.
Amazon has handled releases of limited Magic: The Gathering product since the producer (Hasbro) of said sets realized they couldn't handle the capacity they had to deal with when selling them. The experience is about a million times better with Amazon.
The US Mint needs to put on their big boy pants and do the same if they're unwilling to spend the money to meaningfully upgrade their infrastructure... And to be honest, I do not think they should spend money on that. They should just outsource the major rarities to Amazon, or at least outsource the data and load management side of things to AWS.
Given that they sold out a 70,000 mintage coin in 10 minutes with thousands of unhappy people, it is not 130,000 per 30 minutes. Whatever the actual number, they all logged in at 12:00. So if it is 130,000, it was 130,000 in one minute.
130,000 unique visitors in 30 minutes. The 75,000 mintage coin (Not 70,000) was available for over an hour, by the way, I am not sure if you know what you are talking about. My order on the Silver V75 did not go through until after 1pm.
Do you even know what you are talking about or are you just here to yell at clouds?
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
The mint said 130,000 visitors over about a 30 minute period, if I recall correctly.
Amazon has handled releases of limited Magic: The Gathering product since the producer (Hasbro) of said sets realized they couldn't handle the capacity they had to deal with when selling them. The experience is about a million times better with Amazon.
The US Mint needs to put on their big boy pants and do the same if they're unwilling to spend the money to meaningfully upgrade their infrastructure... And to be honest, I do not think they should spend money on that. They should just outsource the major rarities to Amazon, or at least outsource the data and load management side of things to AWS.
Given that they sold out a 70,000 mintage coin in 10 minutes with thousands of unhappy people, it is not 130,000 per 30 minutes. Whatever the actual number, they all logged in at 12:00. So if it is 130,000, it was 130,000 in one minute.
130,000 unique visitors in 30 minutes. The 75,000 mintage coin (Not 70,000) was available for over an hour, by the way, I am not sure if you know what you are talking about. My order on the Silver V75 did not go through until after 1pm.
Do you even know what you are talking about or are you just here to yell at clouds?
They only sold 71,000 V75 on the 1st day not 75,000. I apologize for rounding.
(Almost) everyone was logged in at 12:00 p.m. and trying to process their orders. It took close to an hour for the last of them to go through. But unless you were the lucky one who logged on at 12:50 p.m. and sailed through processing, there was a constant line-up of tens of thousands of people trying to cram through their orders during that entire time. That is what caused the gateway logjam.
If you look at this article from last year's ERP ASE release, the Mint indicated that there were 99,000+ people all logged on at 12:00 p.m. not a couple thousand per minute over 30 minutes.
@ShaunBC5 said:
The problem is the game, not the players. Arbitrage happens and in many cases gets things into the hands of those who want/need them most. In this case, it sounds like the issue was that the mintage was known ahead of time and it was advertised that all you had to do was be lucky enough to get through the system and you could make money. Christmas is almost here, it happens every year with the hot toys.
I don't blame the flippers at all. The system just needs to be fixed to reward long-term customers, and also allow for the general public to have a shot.
Luxury brands often have requirements for purchase of special items (two new Ferrari purchases in 10yrs in order to lease the newest one, or X number of Birkin bags in order to get the latest special version)...The mint could (should?) have some sort of loyalty program to reward good customers, but not keep out the rest of the public.
I've collected coins for 20+yrs now, but never purchased from the mint. If there was something that a long-time customer had a better shot at than me, I would be fine with that, as long as I still had my chance.
@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
I take it back because I see that Walmart can't handle the Playstation 5 release today, similair experience to 11/5 release
You can believe whatever you want but as both were marked as shipped (but evidently not left the facility) not sure that was an issue. So in short...feel free to enjoy a steaming cup of you know what. You will be gone in a week and are barely worth the time it took to respond. Believe it or not, not everybody is in it for the buck. When a member on this board got their collection stolen I gave away coins to other board members for their collections if they would pay it forward to the member who was in a bad way. I can tell by the way you would so easily insult the integrity of someone you do not know that you are a never served, excuse.
@Mgarmy said:
Without the collector you have no flip as their is no demand. BS like this hurts the hobby particularly if the mint is going to continue with this nonsense. The seagulls will fly off after their next free meal with only shit left behind. As for your hypothetical would I turn down profit so as not to hose another collector...yes and I did with the silver. I got one from work, my wife got one for me for Christmas. When I found out two days later I called the mint and cancelled mine.
You were probably afraid they would cancel both due to the 1 household limit so you covered yourself.
i don't believe you did this out of the goodness of your heart for the "hobby".
You can believe whatever you want but as both were marked as shipped (but evidently not left the facility) not sure that was an issue. So in short...feel free to enjoy a steaming cup of you know what. You will be gone in a week and are barely worth the time it took to respond. Believe it or not, not everybody is in it for the buck. When a member on this board got their collection stolen I gave away coins to other board members for their collections if they would pay it forward to the member who was in a bad way. I can tell by the way you would so easily insult the integrity of someone you do not know that you are a never served, excuse.
I apologize for being rude, but then why didn’t you keep the 2nd coin and sell it to someone on here for cost?
By canceling you likely just gave it to a flipper.
I’m not a big collector, but I’ve bought coins from the mint for a few years. Never flipped any of them. I still own every coin I’ve bought.
I thought all y’all seasoned collectors didn’t collect modern crap but all of a sudden now you do. Sounds a little bit flippy to me not to mention but I will hypocritical.
ASE PF 70 from 86 till the last one next year and CC Morgans. After ASE is done might add PF V to the collection.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
okay maybe so, but the mint only made how many 2000? What’s up with that? Obviously they had intentions.
Buy everybody sitting there with mouse in hand will have a hard time selling this story.
1945 I think for the gold and 75k for the silver for the first release of the week. Not sure for the 1/2 ounce and the medal a couple days later. Never had enough money early on to collect the gold AE and by the time I did I decided to upgrade my ASE’s to all 70’s. Will be glad when it is over next year. No more mint drama
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
I take it back because I see that Walmart can't handle the Playstation 5 release today, similair experience to 11/5 release
The Mint said at noon thete were 390 000 logged in. The most ever.
@Mgarmy said:
1945 I think for the gold and 75k for the silver for the first release of the week. Not sure for the 1/2 ounce and the medal a couple days later. Never had enough money early on to collect the gold AE and by the time I did I decided to upgrade my ASE’s to all 70’s. Will be glad when it is over next year. No more mint drama
And how many farewell tours did KIss have. I’m sure this coin will depreciate like a 79 Buick and you’ll be able to pick one up before you know it.
Certainly, it will bring in more collectors than it loses. So hats off to Mr Wonka.
First I ever heard of them. Sucks for our hobby to be sure.
Not the first time I've mentioned their name here doing this. And they are not the only one. There are many of them and they each probably have 1000s or 10s of 1000s of followers.
@Mgarmy said:
As to the guy who asked the stamp question..apples and cows. If there is a stamp, one stamp...that is worth 50 thousand they would not sell it for 2600 dollars. AND you are describing an auction which would be fine as some have put forth, let the mint run an auction and then everybody would have a chance limited only by their wallet vice a crappy online platform. Coin dealers flip for a living it is the nature of their business, heck it is their business...very different from the seagulls.
I am said guy.
It's a hypothetical circumstance. Very useful for debates to clarify positions. In said hypothetical, the stamp is issued for 2600 but would be worth 50k. I presume you would not leave that profit on the table to benefit your philatelist neighbor next door.
Agree? If so, 12k is just a different number. You would have no issues seagulling for 50k profit others seagull for 12k profit. I imagine still others may do the same for $50.
Unless you're really going to argue that you would forgoe the 50k profit on principle.
I think some people absolutely do just that.
I could very possibly get another V75 gold on a relatives account and flip for 10K profit. A number of collectors here likely could do the same as they're very experienced at using the Mint site. Being a collector who is elated to have scored one i won't even try. I want other collectors to be able to enjoy them.
I'm an avid collector of some rare firearms. I've sold quite a few way under market to other serious collectors.
The community of collectors is part of what makes any collecting hobby fun.
I think the Mint royally screwed their long time collector base w this one. I understand the arguments on both sides. Having considered them I'm not much for flippers and I agree w many of the appropriately negative comments made about them and their adverse impact on the hobby.
@Mgarmy said:
Without the collector you have no flip as their is no demand. BS like this hurts the hobby particularly if the mint is going to continue with this nonsense. The seagulls will fly off after their next free meal with only shit left behind. As for your hypothetical would I turn down profit so as not to hose another collector...yes and I did with the silver. I got one from work, my wife got one for me for Christmas. When I found out two days later I called the mint and cancelled mine.
@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
I take it back because I see that Walmart can't handle the Playstation 5 release today, similair experience to 11/5 release
At some level, every system breaks down. That's one of the way they launch cyberattacks. They flood a system with hundreds of thousands or millions of requests to freeze the system.
@ShaunBC5 said:
The system just needs to be fixed to reward long-term customers, and also allow for the general public to have a shot.
And thus begins the debate over what constitutes a "long-term customer".
Yes, there will be that. And then the newbies will complain that they are being discriminated against because they are new customers. And then big customers will complain they are being discriminated against in favor of people who buy one proof set per year.
No matter what the distribution system is: them's that gets 'em is happy and them's that doesn't is unhappy.
And, as I've mentioned before, if they have unlimited mintages, people complain that they are buying coins that don't hold their value.
@CoinscratchFever said:
I thought all y’all seasoned collectors didn’t collect modern crap but all of a sudden now you do. Sounds a little bit flippy to me not to mention but I will hypocritical.
May not be "flippy", but I'm sure the value proposition carries the day even if you are going to hold it. Your basic point is well taken. When there aren't 10 threads complaining about not being able to buy a particular hot item, there are 2 or 3 threads complaining about the sheer volume of "modern mint crap" and the price of those items.
We should all just be thankful that we have the resources to throw money at a hobby rather than struggling to pull together the rent money.
[Of course, there are some members who have complete date/mm sets that they are trying to keep current. I appreciate the frustration of those people.]
@jmlanzaf
Like the generations that came before us and before them, we too shall pass and so it is important that we pass the baton. And what a better way to excite new collectors than to create a new feeding frenzy. I think what Mr. Wonka did was brilliant.
And probably just a page from the history books.
If I collected these particular coins I would be excited that there was another coin for my set worth a ton of money. Even if it was unobtainable.
I'm very happy I can pay my rent/mortgage now and hope it lasts, fingers crossed.
The whole notion that a low post count equals newbie/flipper is absurd and conversely, I have over 2,000 posts and I still am a newbie. Besides, I didn't just wake up one day and thought to myself "I like coins think I'll become a coin collector today."
No, it was the realization that I could make a quick buck that peaked my interests. I have yet to be successful in that quest and am upside down from that viewpoint. But now I collect
My new series (pictured) has a coin, the 1911 strong D that costs multiples of my mortgage payment in a decent grade. But I'm not gonna cry about it, I'm gonna work harder.
Comments
130,000 unique visitors in 30 minutes. The 75,000 mintage coin (Not 70,000) was available for over an hour, by the way, I am not sure if you know what you are talking about. My order on the Silver V75 did not go through until after 1pm.
Do you even know what you are talking about or are you just here to yell at clouds?
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/mint-website-is-overwhelmed-by-wwii-american-eagle-sales
http://coinsblog.ws/2019/11/weekly-world-numismatic-news-for-november-17-2019.html
The only one yelling is DelawareDoons. Cut him some slack. There's a prune juice shortage due to Covid.
Awesome post!!!!!!
I think that that point is that long time collectors have been hosed right at the end of the series. Collectors who are not trying to flip.
I take it back because I see that Walmart can't handle the Playstation 5 release today, similair experience to 11/5 release
And thus begins the debate over what constitutes a "long-term customer".
I apologize for being rude, but then why didn’t you keep the 2nd coin and sell it to someone on here for cost?
By canceling you likely just gave it to a flipper.
I’m not a big collector, but I’ve bought coins from the mint for a few years. Never flipped any of them. I still own every coin I’ve bought.
I thought all y’all seasoned collectors didn’t collect modern crap but all of a sudden now you do. Sounds a little bit flippy to me not to mention but I will hypocritical.
ASE PF 70 from 86 till the last one next year and CC Morgans. After ASE is done might add PF V to the collection.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
okay maybe so, but the mint only made how many 2000? What’s up with that? Obviously they had intentions.
Buy everybody sitting there with mouse in hand will have a hard time selling this story.
1945 I think for the gold and 75k for the silver for the first release of the week. Not sure for the 1/2 ounce and the medal a couple days later. Never had enough money early on to collect the gold AE and by the time I did I decided to upgrade my ASE’s to all 70’s. Will be glad when it is over next year. No more mint drama
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
The Mint said at noon thete were 390 000 logged in. The most ever.
And how many farewell tours did KIss have. I’m sure this coin will depreciate like a 79 Buick and you’ll be able to pick one up before you know it.
Certainly, it will bring in more collectors than it loses. So hats off to Mr Wonka.
From their site....
First I ever heard of them. Sucks for our hobby to be sure.
I wonder what pfs stands for? Lol.
I got three words but I don’t want this to be my last post.
Not the first time I've mentioned their name here doing this. And they are not the only one. There are many of them and they each probably have 1000s or 10s of 1000s of followers.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
I think some people absolutely do just that.
I could very possibly get another V75 gold on a relatives account and flip for 10K profit. A number of collectors here likely could do the same as they're very experienced at using the Mint site. Being a collector who is elated to have scored one i won't even try. I want other collectors to be able to enjoy them.
I'm an avid collector of some rare firearms. I've sold quite a few way under market to other serious collectors.
The community of collectors is part of what makes any collecting hobby fun.
I think the Mint royally screwed their long time collector base w this one. I understand the arguments on both sides. Having considered them I'm not much for flippers and I agree w many of the appropriately negative comments made about them and their adverse impact on the hobby.
Awesome! Just awesome.
I was as well. 100% stand up person, a true credit to the hobby. One of the truly good ones.
At some level, every system breaks down. That's one of the way they launch cyberattacks. They flood a system with hundreds of thousands or millions of requests to freeze the system.
Yes, there will be that. And then the newbies will complain that they are being discriminated against because they are new customers. And then big customers will complain they are being discriminated against in favor of people who buy one proof set per year.
No matter what the distribution system is: them's that gets 'em is happy and them's that doesn't is unhappy.
And, as I've mentioned before, if they have unlimited mintages, people complain that they are buying coins that don't hold their value.
May not be "flippy", but I'm sure the value proposition carries the day even if you are going to hold it. Your basic point is well taken. When there aren't 10 threads complaining about not being able to buy a particular hot item, there are 2 or 3 threads complaining about the sheer volume of "modern mint crap" and the price of those items.
We should all just be thankful that we have the resources to throw money at a hobby rather than struggling to pull together the rent money.
[Of course, there are some members who have complete date/mm sets that they are trying to keep current. I appreciate the frustration of those people.]
@jmlanzaf
Like the generations that came before us and before them, we too shall pass and so it is important that we pass the baton. And what a better way to excite new collectors than to create a new feeding frenzy. I think what Mr. Wonka did was brilliant.
And probably just a page from the history books.
If I collected these particular coins I would be excited that there was another coin for my set worth a ton of money. Even if it was unobtainable.
I'm very happy I can pay my rent/mortgage now and hope it lasts, fingers crossed.
The whole notion that a low post count equals newbie/flipper is absurd and conversely, I have over 2,000 posts and I still am a newbie. Besides, I didn't just wake up one day and thought to myself "I like coins think I'll become a coin collector today."
No, it was the realization that I could make a quick buck that peaked my interests. I have yet to be successful in that quest and am upside down from that viewpoint. But now I collect
My new series (pictured) has a coin, the 1911 strong D that costs multiples of my mortgage payment in a decent grade. But I'm not gonna cry about it, I'm gonna work harder.