@ShaunBC5 said:
The system just needs to be fixed to reward long-term customers, and also allow for the general public to have a shot.
If you reward one group, you unreward everybody else. According to the mint's website...
"The mission of the U.S. Mint is to serve the American people by manufacturing and distributing circulating, precious metal and collectible coins and national medals..."
"The American people". Collectors and flippers and everybody else. Pretty straightforward.
@ShaunBC5 said:
The system just needs to be fixed to reward long-term customers, and also allow for the general public to have a shot.
If you reward one group, you unreward everybody else. According to the mint's website...
"The mission of the U.S. Mint is to serve the American people by manufacturing and distributing circulating, precious metal and collectible coins and national medals..."
"The ** American** people". Collectors and flippers and everybody else. Pretty straightforward.
Is it limited to US (American) addresses?
The Royal Canadian Mint limits some popular releases to Canadian addresses only.
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As to the guy who asked the stamp question..apples and cows. If there is a stamp, one stamp...that is worth 50 thousand they would not sell it for 2600 dollars. AND you are describing an auction which would be fine as some have put forth, let the mint run an auction and then everybody would have a chance limited only by their wallet vice a crappy online platform. Coin dealers flip for a living it is the nature of their business, heck it is their business...very different from the seagulls.
As to the difficult economic environment, concur and if I believed for a second that the folks flipping were in that boat it would be a different story. Would love to see more stories on this board about the collectors that got one...but all I have seen is seagulls
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@Mgarmy said:
As to the guy who asked the stamp question..apples and cows. If there is a stamp, one stamp...that is worth 50 thousand they would not sell it for 2600 dollars. AND you are describing an auction which would be fine as some have put forth, let the mint run an auction and then everybody would have a chance limited only by their wallet vice a crappy online platform. Coin dealers flip for a living it is the nature of their business, heck it is their business...very different from the seagulls.
I am said guy.
It's a hypothetical circumstance. Very useful for debates to clarify positions. In said hypothetical, the stamp is issued for 2600 but would be worth 50k. I presume you would not leave that profit on the table to benefit your philatelist neighbor next door.
Agree? If so, 12k is just a different number. You would have no issues seagulling for 50k profit others seagull for 12k profit. I imagine still others may do the same for $50.
Unless you're really going to argue that you would forgoe the 50k profit on principle.
Hypothetical’s are fine for issue deconstruction however they need to be similar enough to the problem. For yours to be close enough everyone but the seller would need to know each stamp was worth 50k, there would need to be 1945 of them. In an auction format you bail when your wallet cry’s most in the latest mint debacle did not even get a shot to attend...why? Because the system exploded with non collectors. Just glad this is not my series (gold) and feel for those whose series this is as the vast majority of them took it in their fourth point and that will have a negative effect on the hobby
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@hammer1 said:
Is it limited to US (American) addresses?
I don't know.
@hammer1 said:
The Royal Canadian Mint limits some popular releases to Canadian addresses only.
Okay.
The snip I quoted above is from the mint's mission statement on their website. I'm sure it's not legally binding or all encompassing. What I'm not seeing there is anything to indicate that, of the pool of potential buyers, some might be favored over others. That's all.
The word auction was never mentioned in my argument.
And the principle is the same.
Collector base expects that due to their long faithful buying history, they have the "rights" to a super valuable opportunity. Whereas in fact, the US Mint allows ANYONE to purchase. They can do what they please with their purchase. Melt it. Flush it. Sell it. It's theirs. they won it fair and square. Expecting them to give up their profits is a twisted perspective.
That above is said in light of the way the offering was structured.
If your argument is that it should be setup differently that's perfectly legit. (and i tend to agree personally)
But the way it was setup.... I mean you gotta be a fool to pass up on ten minutes of work for 10k profit. And you gotta be a bigger fool to expect behavior to the contrary. Simple as that.
Without the collector you have no flip as their is no demand. BS like this hurts the hobby particularly if the mint is going to continue with this nonsense. The seagulls will fly off after their next free meal with only shit left behind. As for your hypothetical would I turn down profit so as not to hose another collector...yes and I did with the silver. I got one from work, my wife got one for me for Christmas. When I found out two days later I called the mint and cancelled mine.
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@Mgarmy said:
Without the collector you have no flip as their is no demand. BS like this hurts the hobby particularly if the mint is going to continue with this nonsense. The seagulls will fly off after their next free meal with only shit left behind. As for your hypothetical would I turn down profit so as not to hose another collector...yes and I did with the silver. I got one from work, my wife got one for me for Christmas. When I found out two days later I called the mint and cancelled mine.
You were probably afraid they would cancel both due to the 1 household limit so you covered yourself.
i don't believe you did this out of the goodness of your heart for the "hobby".
@Catbert said:
What's the difference between a newbie flip and an experienced collector or a dealer flip?
Would you advocate a mandatory holding period? Who/how to enforce?
Sorry, I think this thread is ridiculous to blame the newbies or flippers who saw an opportunity and were lucky enough to capitalize on it.
Agree.
If it weren't for the profit involved here, the threads wouldn't be bemoaning the newbies. Instead, the thread would be complaining that $85 is a ridiculous price for an ASE.
@CoinPhysicist said:
The mint should mint to demand. It shouldn't be in the business of creating modern rarities.
What would the demand be for an $85 proof silver eagle? Or $120 silver proof set?
The fact is, without the "manufactured rarity" aspect of it, I don't imagine most of us would care. Long-time collectors on this very board are always talking about how they eschew MInt purchases and buy them cheaper next year on the secondary market.
@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
@jmlanzaf said:
And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Even if they did, the result would be the same- a few people would get a coin and most wouldn't. And people would find something else to blame the mint for not doing right because they didn't get the coin they wanted.
@jmlanzaf said:
And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Even if they did, the result would be the same- a few people would get a coin and most wouldn't. And people would find something else to blame the mint for not doing right because they didn't get the coin they wanted.
Agreed.
And if they used it as part of a loyalty program, all of the people on here who proudly boast of not buying from the Mint anymore would complain. And if people started buying a few items to qualify for the loyalty program, imagine the complaints when many of those people STILL didn't get one.
And we all know what happens if they mint unlimited to demand: the price on the secondary market drops and then people get mad that their "investment" doesn't hold its value.
No way for the Mint to win. This doesn't even really help the Mint. They sold a very limited number of items that they may barely have covered costs in producing in the hopes that some of those people buy a proof set or something else.
If they really did get one,good for them. I got a silver. If I was lucky enough to get a gold one,I'd likely keep quiet about it ...The mintage was just way too low,to offer a fair chance for collectors to get in at issue price.
The low mintages, and the instant profits that are available for those who are lucky enough to get these coins, should indicate that they are not easy to get.
If everybody could get them, they wouldn't have such profitable returns for flippers.
I wanted one for my collection. I didn't get one. I had the same chance as everybody else.
Congratulations to those who were savvy, or lucky enough to obtain these coins.
@Coinlearner said:
If they really did get one,good for them. I got a silver. If I was lucky enough to get a gold one,I'd likely keep quiet about it ...The mintage was just way too low,to offer a fair chance for collectors to get in at issue price.
And if the mintage were higher, no one would want to pay the premium to get them on the issue date.
@jmlanzaf said:
No way for the Mint to win. This doesn't even really help the Mint. They sold a very limited number of items that they may barely have covered costs in producing in the hopes that some of those people buy a proof set or something else.
I don't think they had any choice in the matter. Congress tells them what to make.
@jmlanzaf said:
No way for the Mint to win. This doesn't even really help the Mint. They sold a very limited number of items that they may barely have covered costs in producing in the hopes that some of those people buy a proof set or something else.
I don't think they had any choice in the matter. Congress tells them what to make.
People could try looking on the bright side- when I started ordering from the mint, you mailed your order in and wouldn't find out until six or eight months later if your order would be filled.
@Mgarmy said:
Without the collector you have no flip as their is no demand. BS like this hurts the hobby particularly if the mint is going to continue with this nonsense. The seagulls will fly off after their next free meal with only shit left behind. As for your hypothetical would I turn down profit so as not to hose another collector...yes and I did with the silver. I got one from work, my wife got one for me for Christmas. When I found out two days later I called the mint and cancelled mine.
You were probably afraid they would cancel both due to the 1 household limit so you covered yourself.
i don't believe you did this out of the goodness of your heart for the "hobby".
You can believe whatever you want but as both were marked as shipped (but evidently not left the facility) not sure that was an issue. So in short...feel free to enjoy a steaming cup of you know what. You will be gone in a week and are barely worth the time it took to respond. Believe it or not, not everybody is in it for the buck. When a member on this board got their collection stolen I gave away coins to other board members for their collections if they would pay it forward to the member who was in a bad way. I can tell by the way you would so easily insult the integrity of someone you do not know that you are a never served, excuse.
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To those who didn't get one (myself included): Suck it up buttercup.
To answer the OPs question, there are now just more newbie mint buyers coming here. Don't forget many of them stick around and become seasoned collectors. I did (2006 newbie).
Reckless faith in the dollar's strength is reckless. Tariff proposals have demonstrated this.
Well that would be awesome if they became collectors. The one who just called me out showed up at the erp and wow, showed up again for this one so pretty sure vulture not collector.
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Release day: Only people with existing accounts, set up more than 30 days prior, and having already established a history of at least 1 completed order (not returned), are allowed to but.
When item is placed in cart, user is instructed to go to a secondary mint address to login and complete transaction within xx minutes (15?) or coin goes back into queue. Would make checkout crash less for those that get it in cart, as the second site would only handle orders for those that actually got to one.
One more ASE in the series and then I don’t have to worry about it anymore. Last year with ERP we could chalk it up to the mint being “overwhelmed and caught off guard,” this time two limited editions at the same time on the same day....no excuse to have not been prepared and if there was any doubt they should have not released both at the same time
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I’m sure every board member here is partly responsible in one way or another for the traffic jam on the Mint Website. We all hyped it up, whether it be a new thread about the date/release or by telling family and friends about the rare gold coin being offered by the mint
I’m sure 99.9% of the forum members here would of sold for the maximum they could get.
There are threads about how much the mint has raised prices and they will never buy another mint product again... haha yea right! A chance to turn $2600 into $10K+ please
About 15 years ago I was a Semi-Regular at the Foxwoods Poker Room. On the Hold-em tables they would take a “Jackpot Drop” of $1 for the Bad-Beat Jackpot that could be won if Quad 8’s were beat by a better hand.
On a few occasions the Badbeat jackpot would get up to 400-600k. The winner of the hand would get 25%, the losing hand 50% and the rest of the table would split the rest. The Poker room would go from your normal crowd to packed, everyone was playing.. Seniors would stay well into the afternoon, complete novices would fill the 1/2 and 2/5 games I played in. The games were great, I made a Lot of money from the overfill of newbs. People would stay until it was hit, sleeping in their cars at the table on the floors.. didn’t matter, as long as they had a “Chance”
Well, I never won the jackpot or even got portion. A Famous Hollywood actor, from Rhode Island Who played in the biggest game in the room hit it........ TWICE
was it good for the game that he took 500K out of the poker economy? I don’t know, but having the extra people around made sure my pocket was full.
@jmlanzaf said:
And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Even if they did, the result would be the same- a few people would get a coin and most wouldn't. And people would find something else to blame the mint for not doing right because they didn't get the coin they wanted.
@CoinPhysicist said:
The mint should mint to demand. It shouldn't be in the business of creating modern rarities.
What would the demand be for an $85 proof silver eagle? Or $120 silver proof set?
The fact is, without the "manufactured rarity" aspect of it, I don't imagine most of us would care. Long-time collectors on this very board are always talking about how they eschew MInt purchases and buy them cheaper next year on the secondary market.
Well then 10 years from now when the mintage is really low, all of a suddenly people will care. But at least everyone who wanted one, got a chance at the time of issue without the price being 6x retail.
@MrSmith said:
People stuck at home (or laid off) due to covid and looking to make a fast buck?
Not me, all the OT I can stomach, straight through this Chinese virus, we can't find help for $30 bucks an hour. I could care less about the V75 gold or the instant profit, I tried, I failed and managed to strike silver, still waiting for it. DC should make his own version, to satisfy the thirst for a privy marked AGE.
@Electricity said:
There are threads about how much the mint has raised prices and they will never buy another mint product again... haha yea right! A chance to turn $2600 into $10K+ please
@Bochiman said:
Release day: Only people with existing accounts, set up more than 30 days prior, and having already established a history of at least 1 completed order (not returned), are allowed to but.
When item is placed in cart, user is instructed to go to a secondary mint address to login and complete transaction within xx minutes (15?) or coin goes back into queue. Would make checkout crash less for those that get it in cart, as the second site would only handle orders for those that actually got to one.
Day 2 and forward: Open to anyone.
The are 500,000 mint customers. You would still have 500,000 people trying to get 2000 coins in their cart at the same time.
And you'd also have 500,000 people complaining that either the mint made them buy a proof set they didn't want in order to be eligible or calling it a scam that the Mint wants them to buy a proof set in order to be eligible to play in the lottery. A lottery, by the way, that still had 10x as many losers as winners. Only now those losers had to pay $20 or $30 just to get a ticket.
@Bochiman said:
Release day: Only people with existing accounts, set up more than 30 days prior, and having already established a history of at least 1 completed order (not returned), are allowed to but.
When item is placed in cart, user is instructed to go to a secondary mint address to login and complete transaction within xx minutes (15?) or coin goes back into queue. Would make checkout crash less for those that get it in cart, as the second site would only handle orders for those that actually got to one.
Day 2 and forward: Open to anyone.
Im also not sure it will make anyone feel better to crash when loading the cart rather than at checkout. I think I had more crashes at the cart than at checkout. And the damn thing made me play the captcha game when it crashed early.
@Bochiman said:
Release day: Only people with existing accounts, set up more than 30 days prior, and having already established a history of at least 1 completed order (not returned), are allowed to but.
When item is placed in cart, user is instructed to go to a secondary mint address to login and complete transaction within xx minutes (15?) or coin goes back into queue. Would make checkout crash less for those that get it in cart, as the second site would only handle orders for those that actually got to one.
Day 2 and forward: Open to anyone.
Im also not sure it will make anyone feel better to crash when learning the cart rather than at checkout. I think I had more crashes at the cart than at checkout. And the damn thing made me play the captcha game when it crashed early.
Yes I played the captcha game 2 or 3 times and quit.
@Bochiman said:
Release day: Only people with existing accounts, set up more than 30 days prior, and having already established a history of at least 1 completed order (not returned), are allowed to but.
When item is placed in cart, user is instructed to go to a secondary mint address to login and complete transaction within xx minutes (15?) or coin goes back into queue. Would make checkout crash less for those that get it in cart, as the second site would only handle orders for those that actually got to one.
Day 2 and forward: Open to anyone.
Im also not sure it will make anyone feel better to crash when learning the cart rather than at checkout. I think I had more crashes at the cart than at checkout. And the damn thing made me play the captcha game when it crashed early.
Yes I played the captcha game 2 or 3 times and quit.
I wish I had the fortitude to quit after 2 or 3 times. LOL. If I saw one more boat or bicycle....
@CoinHoarder said:
The newbies are probably more tech savvy than us old geezers. They don't hit the wrong buttons and get locked out, like I did. Maybe it will create new interest in the hobby!
It won't. They get their money, and they get out.
In the past, many people would use their earnings to fund classic coin purchases.
@jmlanzaf said:
Im also not sure it will make anyone feel better to crash when loading the cart rather than at checkout. I think I had more crashes at the cart than at checkout. And the damn thing made me play the captcha game when it crashed early.
That's kind of what I was getting at in my previous reply to those unhappy because they had the coin in their cart and couldn't check out. Regardless of how it's set up, there's going to be a point in the process where most people won't be able to continue when the demand exceeds the supply.
@jmlanzaf said:
Im also not sure it will make anyone feel better to crash when loading the cart rather than at checkout. I think I had more crashes at the cart than at checkout. And the damn thing made me play the captcha game when it crashed early.
That's kind of what I was getting at in my previous reply to those unhappy because they had the coin in their cart and couldn't check out. Regardless of how it's set up, there's going to be a point in the process where most people won't be able to continue when the demand exceeds the supply.
Agree.
People seem to assume that it is just the check-out that is the problem. But the bottle-neck could be anywhere. I actually tried to log in to my second account at about 12:02 a.m. and had that crash several times before I could even log in to the Mint website much less do anything else.
There's no easy solution, despite everyone's suggestions. The only real solution is unlimited mintages with an ordering deadline. But that also guarantees that these issues end up being bullion coins on the secondary market. I'm not sure how many of these folks would be super excited about paying $85 for a privy-marked ASE that is worth $25 the minute it arrives at their house.
@CoinHoarder said:
The newbies are probably more tech savvy than us old geezers. They don't hit the wrong buttons and get locked out, like I did. Maybe it will create new interest in the hobby!
It won't. They get their money, and they get out.
In the past, many people would use their earnings to fund classic coin purchases.
That's if they are members of this forum and not members of a random buyer's club. In that case, they are probably funding their sneaker purchases.
@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
The mint said 130,000 visitors over about a 30 minute period, if I recall correctly.
Amazon has handled releases of limited Magic: The Gathering product since the producer (Hasbro) of said sets realized they couldn't handle the capacity they had to deal with when selling them. The experience is about a million times better with Amazon.
The US Mint needs to put on their big boy pants and do the same if they're unwilling to spend the money to meaningfully upgrade their infrastructure... And to be honest, I do not think they should spend money on that. They should just outsource the major rarities to Amazon, or at least outsource the data and load management side of things to AWS.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@engmtic said:
But of course the Mint is the real villian here. Digital equivalent of the USPS. Unbelievable in 2020 they cant pony up 50k or whatever it costs and get a legit server
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
The mint said 130,000 visitors over about a 30 minute period, if I recall correctly.
Amazon has handled releases of limited Magic: The Gathering product since the producer (Hasbro) of said sets realized they couldn't handle the capacity they had to deal with when selling them. The experience is about a million times better with Amazon.
The US Mint needs to put on their big boy pants and do the same if they're unwilling to spend the money to meaningfully upgrade their infrastructure... And to be honest, I do not think they should spend money on that. They should just outsource the major rarities to Amazon, or at least outsource the data and load management side of things to AWS.
Given that they sold out a 70,000 mintage coin in 10 minutes with thousands of unhappy people, it is not 130,000 per 30 minutes. Whatever the actual number, they all logged in at 12:00. So if it is 130,000, it was 130,000 in one minute.
I'm a long time collector - these flips give me profits that I directly put into my collecting area of interest, so it all stays in the hobby. It does a good job of being a self funding hobby for the most part.
Comments
Another reason to have paid in full preordering.
If you reward one group, you unreward everybody else. According to the mint's website...
"The mission of the U.S. Mint is to serve the American people by manufacturing and distributing circulating, precious metal and collectible coins and national medals..."
"The American people". Collectors and flippers and everybody else. Pretty straightforward.
Is it limited to US (American) addresses?
The Royal Canadian Mint limits some popular releases to Canadian addresses only.
I don’t think it is limited to US only
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As to the guy who asked the stamp question..apples and cows. If there is a stamp, one stamp...that is worth 50 thousand they would not sell it for 2600 dollars. AND you are describing an auction which would be fine as some have put forth, let the mint run an auction and then everybody would have a chance limited only by their wallet vice a crappy online platform. Coin dealers flip for a living it is the nature of their business, heck it is their business...very different from the seagulls.
As to the difficult economic environment, concur and if I believed for a second that the folks flipping were in that boat it would be a different story. Would love to see more stories on this board about the collectors that got one...but all I have seen is seagulls
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Are not coin dealers simply Flippers?
Reckless faith in the dollar's strength is reckless. Tariff proposals have demonstrated this.
I am said guy.
It's a hypothetical circumstance. Very useful for debates to clarify positions. In said hypothetical, the stamp is issued for 2600 but would be worth 50k. I presume you would not leave that profit on the table to benefit your philatelist neighbor next door.
Agree? If so, 12k is just a different number. You would have no issues seagulling for 50k profit others seagull for 12k profit. I imagine still others may do the same for $50.
Unless you're really going to argue that you would forgoe the 50k profit on principle.
Hypothetical’s are fine for issue deconstruction however they need to be similar enough to the problem. For yours to be close enough everyone but the seller would need to know each stamp was worth 50k, there would need to be 1945 of them. In an auction format you bail when your wallet cry’s most in the latest mint debacle did not even get a shot to attend...why? Because the system exploded with non collectors. Just glad this is not my series (gold) and feel for those whose series this is as the vast majority of them took it in their fourth point and that will have a negative effect on the hobby
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I don't know.
Okay.
The snip I quoted above is from the mint's mission statement on their website. I'm sure it's not legally binding or all encompassing. What I'm not seeing there is anything to indicate that, of the pool of potential buyers, some might be favored over others. That's all.
The word auction was never mentioned in my argument.
And the principle is the same.
Collector base expects that due to their long faithful buying history, they have the "rights" to a super valuable opportunity. Whereas in fact, the US Mint allows ANYONE to purchase. They can do what they please with their purchase. Melt it. Flush it. Sell it. It's theirs. they won it fair and square. Expecting them to give up their profits is a twisted perspective.
That above is said in light of the way the offering was structured.
If your argument is that it should be setup differently that's perfectly legit. (and i tend to agree personally)
But the way it was setup.... I mean you gotta be a fool to pass up on ten minutes of work for 10k profit. And you gotta be a bigger fool to expect behavior to the contrary. Simple as that.
Without the collector you have no flip as their is no demand. BS like this hurts the hobby particularly if the mint is going to continue with this nonsense. The seagulls will fly off after their next free meal with only shit left behind. As for your hypothetical would I turn down profit so as not to hose another collector...yes and I did with the silver. I got one from work, my wife got one for me for Christmas. When I found out two days later I called the mint and cancelled mine.
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I say we get out the tar and feathers!!!!!
The comment was meant to sarcastic.
You were probably afraid they would cancel both due to the 1 household limit so you covered yourself.
i don't believe you did this out of the goodness of your heart for the "hobby".
Agree.
If it weren't for the profit involved here, the threads wouldn't be bemoaning the newbies. Instead, the thread would be complaining that $85 is a ridiculous price for an ASE.
.
What would the demand be for an $85 proof silver eagle? Or $120 silver proof set?
The fact is, without the "manufactured rarity" aspect of it, I don't imagine most of us would care. Long-time collectors on this very board are always talking about how they eschew MInt purchases and buy them cheaper next year on the secondary market.
Not 50k.
You've got to remember, they've got multiple hundreds of thousands logging in at the same second. Amazon doesn't see that kind of volume. And it would be silly and irresponsible for them to invest in an Amazon sized payment gateway when 99.99% of the time their volume is one-ten-thousandth or less of that peak volume.
Edited to add:
During Black Friday, Amazon processes 36 million per day. That's 15 million per hour or 250,000 per minute. That is probably less activity than the Mint hade at 12:01 p.m. on release day.
Even if they did, the result would be the same- a few people would get a coin and most wouldn't. And people would find something else to blame the mint for not doing right because they didn't get the coin they wanted.
Agreed.
And if they used it as part of a loyalty program, all of the people on here who proudly boast of not buying from the Mint anymore would complain. And if people started buying a few items to qualify for the loyalty program, imagine the complaints when many of those people STILL didn't get one.
And we all know what happens if they mint unlimited to demand: the price on the secondary market drops and then people get mad that their "investment" doesn't hold its value.
No way for the Mint to win. This doesn't even really help the Mint. They sold a very limited number of items that they may barely have covered costs in producing in the hopes that some of those people buy a proof set or something else.
If they really did get one,good for them. I got a silver. If I was lucky enough to get a gold one,I'd likely keep quiet about it
...The mintage was just way too low,to offer a fair chance for collectors to get in at issue price.
Everybody has the same chance at these coins.
The low mintages, and the instant profits that are available for those who are lucky enough to get these coins, should indicate that they are not easy to get.
If everybody could get them, they wouldn't have such profitable returns for flippers.
I wanted one for my collection. I didn't get one. I had the same chance as everybody else.
Congratulations to those who were savvy, or lucky enough to obtain these coins.
First come, first served. No complaints from me.
And if the mintage were higher, no one would want to pay the premium to get them on the issue date.
I don't think they had any choice in the matter. Congress tells them what to make.
True. As I say, there's no way for them to win.
People could try looking on the bright side- when I started ordering from the mint, you mailed your order in and wouldn't find out until six or eight months later if your order would be filled.
You can believe whatever you want but as both were marked as shipped (but evidently not left the facility) not sure that was an issue. So in short...feel free to enjoy a steaming cup of you know what. You will be gone in a week and are barely worth the time it took to respond. Believe it or not, not everybody is in it for the buck. When a member on this board got their collection stolen I gave away coins to other board members for their collections if they would pay it forward to the member who was in a bad way. I can tell by the way you would so easily insult the integrity of someone you do not know that you are a never served, excuse.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
To those who didn't get one (myself included): Suck it up buttercup.
To answer the OPs question, there are now just more newbie mint buyers coming here. Don't forget many of them stick around and become seasoned collectors. I did (2006 newbie).
Reckless faith in the dollar's strength is reckless. Tariff proposals have demonstrated this.
Well that would be awesome if they became collectors. The one who just called me out showed up at the erp and wow, showed up again for this one so pretty sure vulture not collector.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Release day: Only people with existing accounts, set up more than 30 days prior, and having already established a history of at least 1 completed order (not returned), are allowed to but.
When item is placed in cart, user is instructed to go to a secondary mint address to login and complete transaction within xx minutes (15?) or coin goes back into queue. Would make checkout crash less for those that get it in cart, as the second site would only handle orders for those that actually got to one.
Day 2 and forward: Open to anyone.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
One more ASE in the series and then I don’t have to worry about it anymore. Last year with ERP we could chalk it up to the mint being “overwhelmed and caught off guard,” this time two limited editions at the same time on the same day....no excuse to have not been prepared and if there was any doubt they should have not released both at the same time
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I’m sure every board member here is partly responsible in one way or another for the traffic jam on the Mint Website. We all hyped it up, whether it be a new thread about the date/release or by telling family and friends about the rare gold coin being offered by the mint
I’m sure 99.9% of the forum members here would of sold for the maximum they could get.
There are threads about how much the mint has raised prices and they will never buy another mint product again... haha yea right! A chance to turn $2600 into $10K+ please
About 15 years ago I was a Semi-Regular at the Foxwoods Poker Room. On the Hold-em tables they would take a “Jackpot Drop” of $1 for the Bad-Beat Jackpot that could be won if Quad 8’s were beat by a better hand.
On a few occasions the Badbeat jackpot would get up to 400-600k. The winner of the hand would get 25%, the losing hand 50% and the rest of the table would split the rest. The Poker room would go from your normal crowd to packed, everyone was playing.. Seniors would stay well into the afternoon, complete novices would fill the 1/2 and 2/5 games I played in. The games were great, I made a Lot of money from the overfill of newbs. People would stay until it was hit, sleeping in their cars at the table on the floors.. didn’t matter, as long as they had a “Chance”
Well, I never won the jackpot or even got portion. A Famous Hollywood actor, from Rhode Island Who played in the biggest game in the room hit it........ TWICE
was it good for the game that he took 500K out of the poker economy? I don’t know, but having the extra people around made sure my pocket was full.
I was the recipient of @Mgarmy generosity and he is a stand up guy. He will be here when a lot of you all are gone.
This.
Well then 10 years from now when the mintage is really low, all of a suddenly people will care. But at least everyone who wanted one, got a chance at the time of issue without the price being 6x retail.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Not me, all the OT I can stomach, straight through this Chinese virus, we can't find help for $30 bucks an hour. I could care less about the V75 gold or the instant profit, I tried, I failed and managed to strike silver, still waiting for it. DC should make his own version, to satisfy the thirst for a privy marked AGE.
This!
The are 500,000 mint customers. You would still have 500,000 people trying to get 2000 coins in their cart at the same time.
And you'd also have 500,000 people complaining that either the mint made them buy a proof set they didn't want in order to be eligible or calling it a scam that the Mint wants them to buy a proof set in order to be eligible to play in the lottery. A lottery, by the way, that still had 10x as many losers as winners. Only now those losers had to pay $20 or $30 just to get a ticket.
Im also not sure it will make anyone feel better to crash when loading the cart rather than at checkout. I think I had more crashes at the cart than at checkout. And the damn thing made me play the captcha game when it crashed early.
Yes I played the captcha game 2 or 3 times and quit.
I wish I had the fortitude to quit after 2 or 3 times. LOL. If I saw one more boat or bicycle....
I had a cart full of bridges and traffic lights.
Reckless faith in the dollar's strength is reckless. Tariff proposals have demonstrated this.
In the past, many people would use their earnings to fund classic coin purchases.
That's kind of what I was getting at in my previous reply to those unhappy because they had the coin in their cart and couldn't check out. Regardless of how it's set up, there's going to be a point in the process where most people won't be able to continue when the demand exceeds the supply.
Agree.
People seem to assume that it is just the check-out that is the problem. But the bottle-neck could be anywhere. I actually tried to log in to my second account at about 12:02 a.m. and had that crash several times before I could even log in to the Mint website much less do anything else.
There's no easy solution, despite everyone's suggestions. The only real solution is unlimited mintages with an ordering deadline. But that also guarantees that these issues end up being bullion coins on the secondary market. I'm not sure how many of these folks would be super excited about paying $85 for a privy-marked ASE that is worth $25 the minute it arrives at their house.
That's if they are members of this forum and not members of a random buyer's club. In that case, they are probably funding their sneaker purchases.
The mint said 130,000 visitors over about a 30 minute period, if I recall correctly.
Amazon has handled releases of limited Magic: The Gathering product since the producer (Hasbro) of said sets realized they couldn't handle the capacity they had to deal with when selling them. The experience is about a million times better with Amazon.
The US Mint needs to put on their big boy pants and do the same if they're unwilling to spend the money to meaningfully upgrade their infrastructure... And to be honest, I do not think they should spend money on that. They should just outsource the major rarities to Amazon, or at least outsource the data and load management side of things to AWS.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Given that they sold out a 70,000 mintage coin in 10 minutes with thousands of unhappy people, it is not 130,000 per 30 minutes. Whatever the actual number, they all logged in at 12:00. So if it is 130,000, it was 130,000 in one minute.
I'm a long time collector - these flips give me profits that I directly put into my collecting area of interest, so it all stays in the hobby. It does a good job of being a self funding hobby for the most part.