Hansen "Pedigree" coins
chesterb
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It is likely that no one cares what chesterb thinks but I don't like the PCGS Hansen labels (example below). There seems to be so many coins bought and sold as the upgrading process takes place that it doesn't seem like a collection to me...at this point in time. It seems more like an accumulation. The label doesn't really fit anything else I have and just seems out-of-place and distracts me when I view the coin.
Now, counter this to the Newman coins. They had a different label but that label looked similar to other NGC labels that it doesn't look out-of-place. Plus, those coins were held for a long time in his collection that it feels like a true collection and pedigree. Better yet, if this were an Eliasberg or Garrett coin with a fancy label then that would be great. I just don't think he's there yet.
If the label was a normal PCGS label with name "Hansen" on it (similar to other pedigrees) then it wouldn't bother me as much. This label just jumps out at you and says I'm supposed to be special. But a coin held for two years in an accumulation doesn't feel special to me. If I've been on the fence about a particular coin, I've found myself passing on one of these coins just because of the label.
Am I missing something or offbase about this?
(I blacked out the coin info because I didn't want to focus on this particular coin)
Comments
Do collectors actually pay a premium for the Hanson pedigree? I sure wouldn't.
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I prefer the normal blue holders myself. I agree...
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Yeah the plain white could use a lil MMMBop
I have no issues with the Hansen labels.
And, there are a lot of gorgeous coins with those labels.
That's Hanson and I wouldn't want a special label from them either!
A Hansen provenance to me is a negative. The method of building this collection seems to be: Fill the hole and upgrade as you go, in rapid succession. This yields many culled coins along the way. Personally, it makes me feel like I'd be buying an inferior coin. If the collection was amassed and upgraded and then the labels added, different story. I've seen some truly subpar "rejects" from the collection .....even "Details" coins with the label and provenance. Not to say there haven't been some really nice coins with the labels, but more inferior than I've ever seen in a prominent collection.
I think there are three parts of this question:
- ascetics of the holder
- Are the coins on the market really just an accumulation of cast offs and upgraded coins, and if so what is the inherent value of the provenance
- Is there really any value at all to the Hansen provenance even for the core set. He basically accumulated what was on the market, often buying marginal coins for seemingly low prices while passing on epic coins.
For me, the answer to all three is no. I think the holder is ugly, the coins offered today are just marketing blah blah, and the provenance on a whole doesn’t reflect a multi-generational collection of amazing coins, it reflects buying a bunch of coins as fast as possible, with less of a focus on quality, but rather on quantity and whole filling. There are some amazing coins but it is a bit more Virgil Brand vs. Garrett Family. Feel free to click the “disagree” button.
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This is what I was thinking with "Ooh, bop!" ;
...at least that is how the song starts off. Catchier tune from the early 90's!
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@Proofmorgan and @Boosibri totally agree with both posts and said much more articulately than I did!
@SeattleSlammer: Like the coins; don't like the labels. Plus who cares if Hansen owned it for 1-2 years?
I agree. It seems like a very expensive accumulation to me as well. If I were to ever own one of these coins, I would immediately send it to PCGS to get fixed, hoping that PCGS would bill him. According to the Registry Rules,
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/benefits
After your initial pedigree, if you upgrade coins from your set and would like the upgraded coin pedigreed, the Reholder fee of $12 per coin will apply for each coin that is Reholdered. PCGS will not pedigree duplicate coins. You must submit both the upgraded coin and the coin it will be replacing. The coin that will no longer remain in your set will be reholdered without the pedigree and returned to you along with the newly pedigreed coin. ($12 to Reholder the coin with the new pedigree and $12 to Reholder the coin that the pedigree is being removed from, 2 X $12 = $24). Your set must remain 100% complete and in the top five to qualify.
The rules do not seem to be followed for this person. I'm not sure why there is favorable treatment when it comes to this person. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1043329/news-on-dl-hansen
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At this stage way more Marketing than Pedigree, but I can ignore Marketing as a given these days.
I am in agreement with you, when looking at one of these Hansen coins I always add in the cost to have it reholdered without the pedigree. And in fact I have not yet bought one, as for you to me the pedigree is not important and just a distraction on the label.
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A representative from DLRC chimed in on the last discussion about Hansen holders. I don't remember exactly, and I believe that conversation has since been deleted, but it isn't a set pedigree as much as a collection identifier. I could be wrong though, let them explain it.
It doesn't seem like they are charging a premium for them so I am neutral about it. I actually have my eye on one they have listed, not sure if I'll pull the trigger or not though.
Collector, occasional seller
How about buy the coin and not the pedigree?
There are plenty of pedigreed coins out there that are unattractive and/or unappealing.
If your gorgeous coin happens to have a Hansen label .... just suffer through the indignity. 😇
I agree there doesn't seem to be a premium for them and I wasn't going there but good to discuss nonetheless.
I don’t care for the specific label type. I have seen PCGS have similar for other provenances. It’s just not the style of label I prefer but ultimately it’s just a minor aesthetic choice. Myself, I wouldn’t pay a premium for just about any provenance no matter who it is.
A Hansen provenance to me is a negative.
I totally agree - the label screams "this is a hand-me-down that's not good enough for my collection so I'll dump it off on some schlub". If I ever ended up with a coin in that holder, I would immediately send it in and get it re-holdered.
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Surely you do. Two reasons: (1) there are always exception made for the wealthy (and volume customer) and (2) PCGS receives a marketing benefit being associated with a famous collection.
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Only some schlub would put up with these hand-me-downs ....
Prior to the allegations about him being such a racist, I can understand it to a certain degree but since that revelation, I wonder how many articles PCGS will be putting out about him and the collection considering all of the alleged racist ties. A publicly taded company does not normally want to be associated with that. I also wonder why DLRC hasn't cut ties. Why would anyone want a business partner like that? I'm not shopping DLRC these days. So, is the marketing benefit outweighed by the alleged racism?
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Even if that is the case, "not good enough" for what is one of the top few registry sets is a pretty high bar. In many cases it's like saying "This Bentley isn't quite as nice as that Rolls-Royce"
Collector, occasional seller
He literally owned hole filler MS65 or MS65 FB Mercury Dimes with that label. Not even close to a Bentley...more like an old and used Toyota Camry with bald tires.
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The complaints here are LAME.
He used hole fillers! He upgraded too many coins! He just has too many coins! It’s not a collection, it’s a hoard! He may be racist! I don’t care about the label, but I still care enough to complain about it! I don’t see premiums being charged for the label, but I’m still upset! The label just looks weird!
Yawn.
You either like the coin or you don’t.
Hopefully we can keep this discussion on the labels without going too far afield. It won’t be productive and will get the thread closed rapidly, or deleted.
I wonder if I could get a custom label for my collection? It’s not big or famous but it would be awesome to have everything labeled TurtleCat with a turtle cat icon...
Too much bashing.
Is the coin nice?
Does the grade fit?
Is it in PCGS plastic?
Does it have a green bean affirmation as to grade and originality?
Is the price acceptable?
This is what matters to me. As to labels, sure a great pedigree is nice but there are dozens of label types out there... Can't get OCD on that front.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
This hobby lives on OCD.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
That's a good question about the marketing benefit. I did some sleuthing and found a DLRC post in coinweek touting this collection as being featured in an auction that closed August 16th. As of now (one month later), none of the ex. Hansen pieces featured in that "article" sold either at auction or at a fixed price since.
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There are many, many beautiful coins in Hansen holders. But I do agree that in this case one is buying the "rejects" that got upgraded, as opposed to the typical case where the "keepers" get dispersed at the end of the collector's lifetime.
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In that case, NO pedigree matters.
@SeattleSlammer said:
The indignity is having a beautiful coin in a holder with a guy's name on it that never valued it more than a high grade object. The guy thinks so much of himself that he puts his name on every coin he ever owned for a minute.