e-mail message from Heritage - Grading Changes to Bob Simpson Auction
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"Please be advised that Part I of the Bob Simpson Collection recently underwent regrading at PCGS that resulted in a number of changes to the previous certified grade. These changes have been made to the online catalogue but if you are only using the hardcopy catalogue, then you are using outdated information to formulate your bids. Please refer to the online catalogue for the most comprehensive and accurate information."
Does anyone know if the grades went up or down (probably both)? I am not even in the same league as this collector and I have not looked at the listings. Do many collections get regraded prior to auction? I have seen where auction houses would have raw coins graded through a TPG or submit them to CAC prior to auction, but I have not heard of having coins regraded.
Just curious.
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I would be very surprised if any went down in grade.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Agreed. I checked the first 20 or so lots and saw a 2 Cent go from 66+ RD CAC to 67 RD non-CAC, and some other pieces that got a Plus designation and which of course re-CAC'd.
I have not been able to check the lots yet, but apparently there were some older holders that were regraded from the conservative days of yester-year?
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I can't wait to see Laura's next Hot Topics blog post.
The only thing odd is the timing. The coins should have been regraded before the items were cataloged. The email might hurt Simpson now that many are now bean less and have now been revealed to have been basically maxed out.
I'm sure there are other factors at play, but it makes the auction seem mismanaged. Regrades after the printed catalogs are out, multiple emails with notices of description changes, etc. Typically these are details taken care of before the lots are cataloged. I've seen some upgrades, some changed designations, and some losses of CAC stickers. Just seems a bit sloppy and inconsistent.
I deleted just posted response to Proofmorgan due to my unnecessary speculation.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Knowing why this happened would be interesting. I’m guessing it was initiated by the consignor. It sure seems like a bad idea to me.
Weird.
I was going through the catalog looking at potential coins to bid on and when i checked the pcgs census things didnt line up. I then realized the coins had been regraded and also coins that were cac now are not. Maybe it wont make a difference but i think it would have been better to leave it alone and let people speculate which coins would upgrade.
Wish him the best, hope it’s not a health issue.
As for the OP's question, "Do many collections get regraded prior to auction?"
I would answer that the big auction houses are some of the TPGs biggest customers. I imagine in most cases the consignment directors review everything and make suggestions for certain coins, but at other times every coin in the collection has been regraded prior to sale. If you think about it, you can easily look through a collection and figure out how many of the coins are wearing new clothes. If there's a huge mix of holders from all different eras, it tells you something too. The big players who bid on dozens or hundreds of coins at a time pay attention to this stuff for sure.
With a divorce causing the sale, I'm wondering if the decision was out of the hands of Simpson. Possibly managed by a third party that required the option in the contract with Heritage if they wanted the consignment. So possibly out of the hands of Heritage at that point also. That all is just a guess, no info to indicate that.
Don't recall hearing before of mass regrades after a catalog was already issued. The sale seemed sudden for the first auction so probably will be done regrading before any future Simpson sale catalogs are issued.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Serious question and not to be antagonistic... Let's say you collected 2c pieces. The one example was cited as going from 66+ RD CAC to 67 RD no sticker. Would that make you pass on the coin? Would it increase, decrease or leave your bid unchanged?
I've also wondered whether it was an attempt to kill enthusiasm and drive prices down so he could scoop them back up at bargain prices. Sometimes divorce sales result when the parties can't agree on valuation. No doubt he could likely afford to keep most or all of them if he really wanted to do so. In all reality, it is probably me being jaded/cynical but collectors and auction houses of this caliber would seemingly know better than to advertise maxed out coins and no beans.
Some people rather have the 66+ in cac, then the 67 Non. I am seeing and hearing more and more serious folks liquidating coins that wont cac.
Ex Wife issue
Latin American Collection
The fact that some people won't even look at the same coin that they would have aggressively pursued before the plastic/holder change shows you how warped the current coin market really is.
At this level they can afford to have JA flown in slabbed in Covid proof plastic with a roll of stickers.
I would never buy a non-CAC coin.
Especially avoid saints.
My Saint Set
I generally buy gold so i will answer for that. If the coin went from 66+ cac to 67 no cac, it would not be a deal killer. Importantly i would know that JA did not think the coin was messed with and my decision would rest with whether i was ok with a 67 coin that was a C and not an A or B.
Were all of the coins re-holdered to Simpson-label holders for the sale? If so, maybe that had something to do with the regrading, since you would lose all the old holders anyway.
Though the timing does seems messed up and I also would guess that external factors played an unfortunate role.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Then why add a special label? Vanity?
Actually, believe it or not, many collectors will pay a tiny bit more for a coin if it has a very special provenance on the label, such as this.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
From a 66+ CAC to 67 is not a massive leap (point wise) and wouldn't be a damper for me, it could have well been downgraded to 66 on another day. From a 66+ to a 68 would make me take a pause though.
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It would give me pause (due to resale fears), but if I liked the coin, it wouldn’t stop me from bidding. Bid unchanged.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
In addition to grade changes, it would be good to know pop changes.
you should read the PCGS pages, grades won't go down on a re-grade:
The “Regrade” service applies to coins that are already encapsulated and graded by PCGS. If a customer feels that their coin may qualify for a newly recognized variety or warrants a different grade, but they do not want to remove the coin themselves, this service may be used. PCGS will receive the coin, note the grade it arrived, remove it from the holder, grade the coin raw. The coin will not return at a lower grade than it was received. If a coin is received as a PCGS MS65, it will be returned to the customer as a PCGS MS65 or higher; never lower.