What will happen to all the ugly, unappealing coins??
keets
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At various times while engaged in discussion here the concept or practice of Market Grading comes to the forefront. As I understand it, Market Grading can be described as assigning a grade to a coin which essentially "prices" the coin at a grade which makes it acceptable and able to be sold in the open market. It can also be seen as assigning a grade which is past the "technical" grade of a coin and also prices the coin.
Recently, I have been seeing quite a few coins which seem to be graded correctly from a technical aspect but they are just not very appealing to look at, usually with unsightly tone. I don't think they'll sell anytime soon at the prices I see them listed at and things seem to be trending down. Will they get bought at a discount to be dipped?? I wonder what will become of such coins??
Al H.
Comments
SOLD!
These aren't graded but it makes the case that just about anything will sell.
They will all go to the Island of Misfit Coins.
Some one will buy them or they'll end up in the melting pot.
Hopefully they’ll find a nice home.
BHNC #248 … 140 and counting.
When I sold cars the saying was “there’s a butt for every seat.” Just like with coins, it’s just a matter of pricing. No collectible coin is naturally too ugly to not be bought. Maybe not at the market price for its technical grade, but there’s a market for them.
An MS66 slab is still a 66 slab. The coin might go for 64 money. But they bought a 66 coin, even if it’s ugly.
Edited for typos.
Hopefully these will make it to the smelter during the next major spike in silver.
...looks like they were pulled early from one already
My father-in-law sold cars his entire life and he pretty much said the same thing; “there’s an ass for every seat”.
There is a buyer for every coin, even if its just for the metal value.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Do you think that isn't it time (for the good of the hobby) to retire some of these unappealing coins? By retire I mean the melting pot or PM stack.
I think ugly coins have a place in the market. The first slabbed coin I purchased with my own money was ugly and I took great pride in that coin as a kid. I never would have been able to afford it if it wasn’t ugly, and wouldn’t have been able to study what I liked about it and what I didn’t. I got to figure out how there was a pretty coin underneath the ugly, and also that I didn’t want a bunch of ugly coins in my collection. Also, what’s ugly today may be eclectic and desirable tomorrow. Lowball sets, anyone?
Might not be my thing, but what brings people into the hobby and keeps it going is a good thing. Even if it’s considered ugly by most.
In some shopping center parking lots.
I'd be willing to bet that some of those raw silver dollars with ugly toning were bought with the intent to conserve them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Reminds me back in the days when I wore a Tandy leather belt buckle with a nice Morgan insert. Yeah baby! Peace Roy
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Don’t forget about the coins that are “unappealing to look at”, which also look to be over-graded. And the ones without “unsightly tone” which have been cleaned, altered, scratched, etc.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I guess I should clarify that I am talking about coins encapsulated by mainly PCGS and NGC which just aren't pleasant to look at, although from a technical standpoint they might be correctly graded.
Since eye appeal varies among collectors, and financial resources vary just as much, I believe those coins will be 'adopted' also....Perhaps in a YN's collection, or another new collector... many people want 'one of those for my collection' and will haggle the price.....Ugly coins, like art, are a matter of taste or affordability. Cheers, RickO
I understood what you were talking about. And the additional coins I referenced could be in such holders, as well.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Why should anything special happen to them? They are coins. They are correctly graded.
I'm still curious to see what happens to this top-pop HK-131.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1021972/top-pop-evacuation-of-boston-so-called-dollars-hk-131#latest
Coins that are unappealing but correctly graded or simply over graded will probably end up with someone who thinks he has a good eye and got the coins for a bargain price.
Hole fillers in a collection?
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Collector will judge coin's appearance to their requirements. They will purchase such coins if that is their type appealing to them. People collect what satisfies their interest and fantasy.
They"ll seek their proper level.
I asked the same question around 2006-2008 as the market was getting frothy. And this was before CAC who on their own assigned a beat down to ugly and over-graded coins. Such coins will only slowly slip lower in value over time if they don't have bullion value OR a rising collector base to save them. Unfortunately, most ugly or over-graded slabbed coins don't really have any visible means of strong long term support.....so prices will slide until a newbie steps in and thinks they see "value" in them. In decades past, problem coins were gobbled up by newbies that flooded into the hobby in the 1960's through 1980's....then a brief resurgence from 2003-2008 as inflation ramped up. I did my fair share of gobbling up problem coins in the 1970's.
So, basically they are tuition!
Also known as GSC on ebay
Obviously, all coins (outside of museums) are owned by either a collector, an investor, or a dealer at any point in time. The interesting question for me is whether ugly coins change hands more frequently, on average, than very attractive ones. I would guess yes, but it's only a guess.
Basically it sounds like we are talking about 'C' coins in CAC speak.
The market is there but depending on several factors (rarity, subjective eye appeal, etc) an appropriate discount will apply. Or you can be a sucker and pay full retail on eBae.
maybe C-!!
Is that what they call eBay in Korea?
A = $100
B = $95.00
C = Would you please weigh this for me?
That's some fugly stuff
The bird there that could not fly but could swim, died in that movie.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
" C " coins can be rather attractive yet maybe "techincally" over-graded by a few tenths of a point....which is splitting hairs in many cases. Maybe they have the tiniest spot of corrosion or a well hidden mark/concern that doesn't pass the CAC muster. I recall back in 2008 asking CAC in person why one of my GEM 65 1865 proof seated halves came back unstickered. The coin was all there to me. Best they could come up with was that it possibly had a touch of cloudiness in the field under the eagle....but they weren't sure....hence a C coin. It wasn't ugly either. Very attractive.
My ex-finest known 1858-0 quarter when it was graded either NGC MS65, or PCGS MS64, and finally PCGS MS65 (pop 1 highest graded).....has never earned the CAC seal of approval. The coin is quite attractive and one of the few true monster O mint seated quarters surviving of any N.O. mint 1840 to 1860. I had quite a few coins of this caliber that were fairly graded, yet would not sticker.....hence "C" coins in today's venacular. CAC hasn't stickered all that many Unc O mint seated quarters, and few better dates in particular.....only 2 UNC 1858-O quarters....making most of the UNCs C coins. They've stickered NO MS65 or higher 1839 no drapery seated halves - making all those pop top 65/66 coins sitting in top tier REG sets.....denoted as "C" coins. Who knew? Note that in early 1988 this same 1858-0 quarter was graded MS64 by PCGS and then MS65 by NGC.
This 1858-0 "C Quality" 25c was the finest, fully original O mint std quarter I ever ran across....absolutely no high point rub, absolutely fully frosty and crusty luster, original skin, and imo very attractive toning. Most gem graded N.O mint seated quarters tend to be over-dipped or dullishly toned in browns/greens....and luster is usually degraded or burnt off a shade. This coin was thought well enough by Gene Gardner to add it to his set a couple years before he passed....while "only" graded PCGS MS64+......despite already having an NGC MS65 in that spot. It currently sits in the Hansen set. Was good enough for Roadrunner, Gardner, Hansen.....but, for some reason JA disapproves of the coin. I wish I had complete set of seated quarters in this quality and "look". I'd be very happy with only PCGS MS65 "C" coins. I've looked at many of the graded MS 1858-0 quarters over the past 40 yrs. This was the only one I felt was truly FULLY mint state. Most of the ones in 61 to 63 holders are sliders.
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1858-o-25c/5446
The fugly coins are the ones I would grade as D quality....or worse. C coins should generally be at least passable for the grade. The fact that CAC didn't like them is irrelevant. C coins were just fine for the most part until around November 2008.........
Maybe this is one of the reasons that I do not like red copper?
The above coin is graded MS65+ red with a CAC sticker and a 36.5K asking price, it looks like it's been run over with a lawnmower (IMHO).
It might have something to do with the imaging but.......it's still ugly, especially for the price.
My guess is 30-50 years from now the grading standards will have undergone yet another change(s) in determination/evaluation. Just think how different it was 30-50 years ago. So the junk of today may be someones treasure tomorrow. Saw this happen with the antique radio market.
@roadrunner
I agree with your assessment of the "C" grade CAC coins. My basic point was that ugly coins go into the bottom of the grade bin. It is my opinion that they will always trade but at a significant discount depending on perceived gap between the ugly coin and a typical coin of the same grade. I don't believe even the ugliest PCGS MS64 or higher Morgan Dollar will ever just sell for melt with silver under $20/oz.
Maybe CAC should provide an ugly brown sticker for C- coins.
Well, that "C" coin is a POP 1/0.
Hansen certainly has quite a few non-CAC coins.
So another answer to the question is that some C coins go to top collectors.
Here are some 1858-O quarters:
Here are the grades:
Guess the CAC
Interesting test. CAC only shows a single MS64 or higher stickered. It used to be easy to find the gold CACs on the CAC web page. I couldn't find a link anywhere this time....????? Out of those 3 coins....only 1 of them is the real deal.
And which two are owned by @DLHansen?
I'll guess the bottom coin (MS64) got the bean. It's probably the one I'd want based purely on aesthetics.
They will sit in their tombs, happily ever after. I asked my ugly and unappealing coins just that. They said nothing. My presumption is they're happy
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
hey, Joe, where you goin' with.........................Oops, wrong thought!!!
let me try again.
hey, Joe, I think that's the closest reply to what my thinking is. the C- coins, or what rr calls D quality, will probably trade hands at a discount(reverse premium) to whatever the guide price(s) might be until they can go no lower and stay in their final resting place. of course, they might reach a point where someone tries to work some "magic" with chemicals, a hoped for re-incarnation of sorts.
What will happen? Two words...
Continuous Recycling
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Well we can look forward to new mint issues and colorized orbs, to excite us. You know, Al, a lot of these coins that don't appeal to the upper echelon ( B, C, and. D coins lacking stickers or 4th party approval) of collectors , actually open the door to a new breed of collectors. In fact, I would contend there are more collectors today who still do not need the plastic or the stickers to enjoy the hobby. Similarly , the way I enjoy you in this field. We got to have perspective.
And on another note, I am happy about all silver proof issues now containing coins made of .999 silver. There Is a start, for stackers.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Funny, I never noticed that!
I mean if no one wants them, they can all be sent to me... I'll love them like they were my own