Struck out
Jmis
Posts: 112 ✭✭✭
Results of my second submission were bad. My question is, does the same grader... grade the order or is it split up between graders? My first submission had good results second one not so good but all five coins came from the same old time collector. It just feels like the first coin graded set the grade for the next two. Not sure if my post makes sense but here are the TV’s from the first sub and I’ll post second sub TV’s when ready.
1931s MS64
1909 MS65
3
Comments
Results from second submission
The same graderS grade the entire submission. Three graders agreed on grades.
Both these coins are nice!
That’s what I don’t understand, the other three are the same 🤷♂️
I have experienced submissions like that as well.
It's a real head-scratcher.
Are the other 3 worth trying again?
Maybe they’re not “the same” and you’re not expert at identifying cleaned coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Actually, I don't like the reverse of that 1931-S
For a 31-S it's above average.
The big crud/carbon spot kills it for me. Wonder if a rose thorn could take care of it.
Doubtful carbon on copper doesn't usually pop off, and if it did I expect it would be very noticeable anyway. Sorry about the results op, toned copper can be dicey when it comes to grading.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Never said I was an expert, just find it interesting that all three coins graded details.
Guess there is a difference in the TV’s?
I will keep them slabbed and use them as learning tools 🧰 Great for reference and comparing other coins. Keeping my head up!
Ouch. The TV's look great to me. Sorry about your luck.
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From the TV's I think you got the short end of the stick on a couple of those, the 1909 is the only one I can sort of agree with due to the dull looking surfaces and what appears to be some rim issue at 11 o'clock. The 1912 I think the rev is what scared them, but the 1917 looks fantastic, I just don't see any issues with it perhaps guilty by association.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I would consider the graders to be right....Though you could always submit (and pay for) reconsideration. If you are not experienced at grading though, you can bet they probably got it right. Cheers, RickO
Maintaining consistency is a grader's ultimate goal and yet it is the most common fault of a grader.
I graded diamonds for over thirty years and I struggled with it too, eventhough my ethics and education was top notch.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
There are countless tales about collectors bummed by TPG bodybags, who later find their castoffs in straight-graded holders.
When I think graders got it wrong I'll try again. And again.
I bought a stunning bust half in a .92 holder seven years ago. Lovely color, no hairlines...just a tad bright. I submitted it a few times and got discouraged. A dealer-friend stepped in. He wouldn't accept defeat. Three months later he returned it to me in an AU55 holder. Some lesson.
Lance.
Sometimes, cleaning can be difficult to detect, even in-hand. That said, the color of the 1909 and 1912 cents looks off to me, as if they have re-toned from a cleaning (or were artificially toned).
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Both can be (and are imo) simultaneously true.
"He who loves silver will not be satisfied with silver, nor he who loves abundance, with increase. This also is vanity.
When goods increase, they increase who eat them -- so what profit have the owners, except to see them with their eyes?"
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man’s all.
For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil."
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."
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I personally believe the graders are correct, you might ask why ... because that's their job.
I believe the graders want you to have the best possible grade that can be given.
Your coins are nice!
2nd batch definitely looks 91/92
"He who loves silver will not be satisfied with silver, nor he who loves abundance, with increase. This also is vanity.
When goods increase, they increase who eat them -- so what profit have the owners, except to see them with their eyes?"
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man’s all.
For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil."
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."
http://www.youtube.com/user/alohabibleprophecy/videos
It's the color not the condition that I don't like.
I agree. I actually feel the same way about the 31-S
I see a lot of later date Lincoln cents in mint sets with similar toning/color.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
School me: Do all three graders agree or is it two plus a finalizer?
peacockcoins
The professional graders at PCGS see a lot of coins and get very good at spotting coins that have been worked on by "experts". These coins are often sold raw in on line auctions or at smaller shows/flea markets where there are large numbers of collectors looking for "deals". They get a deal ... a bad deal.
I agree with those above that said the graders got it right.........
and I also agree with those above that think the results might be different if resubmitted.
Just one of those things we deal with in life and in this hobby.
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I agree, though I think the 1917 also looks to be on the light side. The 1909 has that sort of matte/muted look of cleaned copper, and the 1912 has lighter centers, with cleaning often exposing fresh surfaces to enable target toning from an album.
From the TrueViews, the first and second batch don't look the same to me.
I question the 1917, too. It’s just that it doesn’t look as conspicuous to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree, once the TV’s were available I did see a difference in the coins. That’s why I will leave the holder as tools of the trade.
They look cleaned to me.
You are lucky the 31-S graded.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I do, too. But I also see similar patterns on retoned coins. [Which is part of the reason that I don't get caught up in the AT/NT debate.]
I've seen quite a few, many in fact, with similar color of the 1912 Lincoln in NGC holders straight graded. But only one recently in a straight graded PCGS holder and it was a 55 DBLD Die Lincoln with a pink and blue color.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
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I dont know that 17 looks awful nice. The other two as well. Send to NGC or try again after waiting awhile
Your three genuine coins got kicked for color. Doesn't look right for 100 year old copper.
And yet I have seen slabbed straight graded Indians and Lincolns that had "red" designated color that did not look right at all; in fact color that on bored winter nights and then subsequent toning sessions I basically replicated.
Don't get me started on 19th and 20th C. British milled pre-decimals....
Well, just Love coins, period.
I wasn't really talking about the condition..just the overall appearance.
31-S can be very ugly and dull and heavily spotted.
I had a 1911 S with similar toning come back as cleaned
Would be a waste of money on the 1909, it clearly looks off, the 1912 while less obvious is a coin flip at best to make it into a straight grade. The 1917 while more brassy in color than normally seen for the teen dates look the most market acceptable of the three and might someday get graded. The other problem is that none of these are valuable enough to be worth submitting too many times.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
No coins were submitted for resale. I only get coins graded to preserve them for my kids and to view them from time to time.
Nice looking coins, aside form the color issues.
The last one looks a bit scary to me, though. Something going on with that color.