Options
Very Interesting Article. Is It Time To Kill The Penny?
Jimnight
Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
Jimnight
Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Yes, good article. Once again, like trying to put an old dog down! Poor thing. Lol. As before my opinion stays the same. Save The Penny! It seems as they're trying to assassinate Abe twice?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Yes, sadly it is time for the cent to go.
This idea has been kicked around for years - as the article mentions.... I doubt very much that it will happen in the near future....the general public has to be persuaded slowly to such a radical concept. Not to mention the businesses that contribute to the production of the cent, and of course, the political ramifications. Cheers, RickO
Seems like it's about time for the nickel, dime, quarter and half to go as well.
Yes should have been done 10 or 20 years ago
It is long past time. Very very very long past time.
Unlike other countries, any changes to US coinage has to done thru legislation, so don't count on it.
There's no more powerful force in politics than inertia.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
John Oliver has a funny episode on Pennies. He explains about how there's a penny lobby in Congress. He mentioned "Big Zinc" and it had me laughing out loud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tyszHg96KI
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/anthropocene-reviewed/episodes/episode-9-pennies-and-piggly-wiggly
I feel like anyone that bothers to evaluate the subject on the basis of utility, then they conclude the penny should be eliminated.
I go so far as to say we should nix the 1 cent, 5 cent, and 25 cent and introduce a 20 cent.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Get rid of the cent for circulation but keep making them in the pre-1982 copper alloy for inclusion in the mint sets and proof sets. Also, the mint could make them in copper and sell them in rolls of 50 to coin dealers and coin collectors for what they cost to manufacture plus a small premium.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Aside from being basically worthless (or worse), Americans don’t spend pennies. We hoard them and turn them in for something we can use.
There are so many pennies in jars and cans that the US wouldn't need to mint one for several years if they would actually get back into circulation.
• It just needs a change in size and composition for it to be economical for the Mint. Isn't the first time. Not even the first time in most of our lifetimes that this has happened (i.e. 1982). Imagine if every time the price of lumber rose, people asked, "Should we stop building houses?"
• The fact that we produce use the penny by the billions per year shows that it is something that we actually do use. If you see a penny on the ground, pick it up! It is literally money! While minuscule in its own right, they add up! And one less cent that the Mint has to strike in the future (assuming you bring them to the bank to successfully keep them in the economy).
• The argument that you can't buy anything with a penny is a moot point because you can't buy anything with a nickel, neither. Nor a dime. Barely anything with a quarter.
• It is an integral part of our decimal system, and I'd venture to say that the argument that "sometimes you'd round up; other times you'd round down" if we ditched it would quickly become "every transaction gets rounded up" due to corporate greed and consumer ignorance. 100 cents make a dollar, which is obvious, but something that many consumers ignore while corporations are well aware of it. It would result in extra $millions per year earned by the corporations.
• Keeping the penny is actually a very, very good sign of our longterm relationship with inflation. While inflation is always on the rise, the US has never experienced hyperinflation which would result in getting rid of the lower denominations and eventually to monetary reforms (think 1920s Germany or 1980s Latin America). The penny = economic stability.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
And idiocy. Don't forget idiocy.
I predict a massive shortage of large jars.
Anyone think cents WOULDN'T be hoarded immediately upon announcement?
@JesseKraft said:
The penny = economic stability.
But don't you think that COVID changes that equation to factor in unpredictability?
I like @PerryHall idea.
Sure! But we've had unpredictable times in the past (think 9/11) and that played little/no bearing into the coins that the Mint produced. Furthermore, in these unpredictable times we are in right now, what's one of the main things people are short of? ...small change, including the cent.
I suppose that instead of "the penny = economic stability," it should read "economic stability = the penny."
I can see if the Mint produced them in the billions and they were stockpiled in a warehouse somewhere. Yes, get rid of them then. However, they make it into circulation by the billions because they are a very functional part of the US monetary system. Again, tweaks need to be made to make them economically viable for the Mint, but getting rid of them would be a mistake and harmful to the masses.
@PerryHall's idea is interesting, but I doubt that the Mint would sell rolls of 50 copper cents to collectors for a few bucks per roll (roughly the cost of manufacture plus a small premium). They would likely sell them for $50+ per roll because they know that individual coins will sell for a few bucks each once broken open. Sometimes I hear that Americans don't want to get rid of the cent from circulation due to "nostalgia," but keeping them for collectors only would be the epitome of nostalgia.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Don’t need hyperinflation to get rid of the lower denominations. The half cent went once it became irrelevant…
I like @PerryHall ’s idea. They could even design a new half cent and put it in the mint sets…
If Canada and most other first world countries can do it, we should have no problems doing it. even with rounding up or down to the nearest nickel on cash transactions, it averages out over a few transactions (some you win 2 cents, some you lose 2 cents, remember its not on every item, just the grand total for rounding). For electronic payments, you can keep the cent, which is the bulk of all transactions anyway.
The purchasing power of the half-cent when they eliminated it was much higher than the 1 cent is now.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
I don't like the thought of killing pennies. Seems too extreme. I'm o. k. with the mint not making anymore pennies in the future but murdering them, and that's what we're talking about, is taking things too far. If people no longer want or like pennies, fine. Just leave them alone. What did they ever do to you?
My idea is an entire makeover to counter the relentless progression of inflation and make coins relevant again.
Get rid of the cent, nickel, dollar bill, and 5 dollar bills. Retire all other coinage. Make a new dime of copper (slightly smaller than current dime), a nickel-copper quarter the rough size of our current dime but thicker, a half dollar a bit larger than our nickel, a dollar about the size of the quarter, a 5-dollar coin a little smaller than a Kennedy, and a rotating bi-metallic or artsy-fartsy commemorative $10 coin a little smaller than an Ike. Keep the $10, 20, 50, and 100 bills and add a $500 and $1000 note.
This would still be way behind what we had value-wise 100 years ago but it would keep coins relevant. A fast food meal should be easily purchased with pocket change.
You are correct that the half cent became irrelevant, however not for reasons stated. The half cent wasn't eliminated due to inflation (nor because it was "unpopular," as many coin reference books state). Rather, it had once served a purpose to accommodate Spanish-American silver coinage, when prices of 12 1/2¢ and 37 1/2¢ were more common than 10¢ and other decimalized pricing schemes. Even 41 1/4¢ was more common than 40¢. The Coinage Act of 1857 got rid of foreign coinage and, as a result, the half cent became irrelevant so it was taken away at the same time.
I know you don't need hyperinflation to get rid of lower denominations, but those are extremes that easily exemplify how inflation de-necessitates lower-denominated coinage. Why strike 1 pfennig coins when the 200 and 500 mark-coins were worthless (let alone the even-higher paper currency)? That was my point.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
I think it’s long past time to eliminate the cent. The nickel should change composition but be maintained. I think the $1, $2, $5 notes should be retired and coinage to replace them. But none of these will likely happen due to the entangling political situations involved in each of them.
I don't feel the cent would be missed or even it's removal from our coins objected to by a large majority of citizens. Go to any store, any store and there will be a small tray with cents for the taking. Where do those cents come from? The public who says keep the cents in change, I don't want them. Even the employees don't want them and that is why they are giving them to any customer in need of a cent or three to complete a sale. This would not be the case if the public would become enraged over the loss of the cent. There will always be a few that would be enraged and unfortunately today they tend to be the only ones heard, but that shouldn't prevent the removal of a worthless coin from our mintage that costs our government and therefore us millions of dollars annually with no benefit to anyone. JMHO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Unfortunately it doesn’t appear our government is able to take action on issues that are important, so this one of minor importance is likely to persist as is for many more years.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
No. It's time to end the federal reserve that destroyed the dollar.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
It's well past time to stop producing new one cent coins.
Don't need to "do" anything more..
Things will sort themselves out at the merchant level.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Yes-do away with the cent (they are toxic underneath that copper plating) and nickel and introduce higher value coins in the denominations of $2.50, $5, and maybe even $10. And make them bi-metallic.
High denomination coins (bi-metallic or otherwise) would be heavily counterfeited and would be undetectable by most people.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The UK went to bimetallic one pound coins to stop counterfeiting of the single composition ones. Bimetallic is much harder to produce.
And don’t forget about all the nefarious tax evasion schemes and underground transactions that could take place.
There's always a "while we're at it..." scope creep that extends to other denominations and paper money, which kills the idea for impracticable aspects (vending machines, parking meters, change counters and wrapping machines...
Just stop making new one cent coins.
That's it.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Vending machine lobby.
The vending machine lobby should be pushing for dollar coins instead of bills. Much less involved mechanically for using a coin slot than the bill reader. Since they don't take cents, this makes their life easier (if a bit heavier).
Should have been done in 2009.
WS
As I said before....
The US Mint only needs to continue producing three coin denominations for circulation, the nickel, quarter, and dollar. Prices on retail and wholesale goods can still be marked to the penny. Merely round the aggregate total of the purchase to the nearest nickel. Consequently, the nickel and quarter sum to any amount of change for a dollar. If you suspect merchants will devise nefarious formulas to get your extra two cents, you are probably correct. However, competition ultimately levels the playing field. No, they will not round up items on shelf stock to the nearest nickel. Remember, gasoline has been xxx.9 forever! For a gimmick, merchants can display a big green “¢” to signify they round down all purchases. Rounding is already an accepted standard with several of our local merchants. The transactional viability of nickels, quarters, and dollars is already established. The three coins are simple to distinguish by touch, weight, or sight. Reaching into a pocket or purse to make exact change becomes easier through the attrition of pennies and dimes from the mix. To maximize the cost-benefit, an alternate metal composition for the nickel is inevitable.
The Mint is enterprising. To capitalize on existing resources, the penny and dime can extend their reign through the annual collector sets. However, if the Mint really wanted to increase their bottom-line (and please collectors?), they now have a lucrative opportunity. There are very talented designers and engravers at the Mint and plenty of artistic ideas. Put them together by creating annual commemorative reverses for the one and ten cent non-circulating coin denominations. The Sacagawea-Native American reverses are exemplary. A circulating bi-metal two-dollar coin would be nice too.
The BEP could simultaneously consider a gradual phase-out of One-dollar bills. Reserve the reverse of the One-dollar denomination as a venue for limited run circulating commemorative bills. Dollar bills will disappear from circulation overnight! This would inevitably encourage the use of the orphaned dollar coins too. In addition, the BEP already has the channels to sell special sets directly to the public. There are many incredible images generated by the BEP engravers in the last 200 years not to mention the potential for new designs. It is a shame to relegate this art and beauty to card stock. It is time to put those images on the bills where they belong. It would be enjoyable to collect affordable, low denomination, modern series commemorative notes from circulation, if you could find any.
All of these proposed changes minimize political engagement, use existing resources, represent considerable cost-saving, and/or generate revenue. This is simply common cents with the potential for affordable collectability. We need some new change.