When a coin seems nice but keeps showing up at auction... is there something wrong with it?
fluffy155
Posts: 288 ✭✭✭✭✭
Occasionally I'll notice a coin that seems nice to me but shows up in multiple auctions over a short period of time. An example would be this coin currently on Stacks:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-NKVWU/1795-flowing-hair-silver-dollar-bb-27-b-5-rarity-1-three-leaves-au-55-ngc
It also sold last year and again earlier this year:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-LWVPX/1795-flowing-hair-silver-dollar-bb-27-b-5-rarity-1-three-leaves-au-55-ngc/
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-GQ05U/1795-flowing-hair-silver-dollar-bb-27-b-5-rarity-1-three-leaves-au-55-ngc
To my admittedly inexperienced eyes it certainly looks nice, but I can think of a few reasons it might keep showing up:
1. The coin is much darker in hand
2. Unseen surface problems
3. Failure to cross at PCGS
4. Failure to CAC
I tend to suspect #1, but is there something else I am missing with this coin? Maybe it's not nice at all and my eyeball isn't properly calibrated? Or is this completely normal in the coin biz and doesn't represent anything at all?
If this is your coin I'm not badmouthing it, just trying to understand but I'll delete the post if you feel it might adversely affect the auction.
Comments
The owner may have put a high reserve on it and when it failed to sell, he tries again in a different venue.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I read somewhere that some auction houses have on-site employees who bid up an item to garner interest and hopefully get an as-expected price. I have been wrong before.
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I see this quite frequently, especially with coins in the 4 and 5 figure range. Some of them get churned quickly by people who likely have more money than brains, but I doubly that explains all of it. I wonder how often these “sales” aren’t really sales. Lots of ways that can happen including consignor buyback, “purchases” by the auction house, returns (it happens), and probably a few other funny things that aren’t occurring to me right now.
I sincerely doubt auction houses are earning full freight on some of threes every few months.
As for the coins, there doesn’t seem to be a consistent pattern between quality and how often they appear at auction.
The only way to determine if something is wrong with a coin is to look at it. Frequency of auction appearances might be a reason to look extra closely but are not, in and of themselves, evidence of a flaw.
It could also mean...
1. The house bid it up to one bid below reserve and no one over bid
2. The guy bought it, showed his wife what he just spent their live savings on and she killed him. Now she is selling it to finance her defense.
3. A dealer bought it for a customer and got stiffed and is trying to recoup his cash loss
4. An old collector bought it opened the package holding the coin he wanted his whole life and died of a joy caused heart attack. His non collector heir is now selling his collection.
5. Someone bought it to flip it
6. Someone bought it thinking it was the $10 million 1794
Interesting, I hadn't thought of auction house shenanigans. I assumed that if it had a reserve it would just say "reserve not met" instead of "sold" for a fake price.
Call me naive, but I’d be really surprised if true shenanigans take place at Heritage, Stacks, Legend, GC, or DLRC (the latter has some “odd” practices that prop up lower bids to get closer to the reserve price, but that is disclosed).
My thoughts on the real world reasons this happens:
1. The buyer received the coin and gets “Buyers Remorse”.
2. As previously stated by others above, the new owner may have died, and it gets sold by heirs.
3. As more money becomes available over time, the owner now has the funds to afford an upgrade, so this lower grade duplicate is sold (this has happened with my collection over the past six years).
4. For some parts of some collections, a small range of grade is OK for a particular coin being hunted (e.g. MS63 - MS64+). You finally come across an MS63 in this example with nice eye appeal, and your high bid is very reasonable, and you win it. Then by coincidence, a 64 or 64+ with even nicer eye appeal comes along some time later, and combined with today’s somewhat soft market for some coins, this coin can be obtained with a very reasonable bid. Yes, this is clearly not cost effective, but it happens. It’s happened to me, too often.
5. Sometimes the photos of a coin will show some “distractions” that the buyer figures they can live with due to a “bargain” price. However after some time, it bothers them too much, so they sell it after having found a nicer coin.
I’m sure there are other legitimate (but costly) reasons.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Naïve. Regards!!
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Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Auction houses have statements in their TOS that will tell you if, and how many times, they are allowed to bid upon a lot for their own purchase. In general, it is my experience that an auction house will be allowed to bid on a coin at arm's-length. That is, the bid cannot be made from the department that knows what the unpublished reserve, if any, might be.
Regarding expensive coins that come up quite frequently, it is also my experience that these coins are often owned by good client consignors who place a high reserve on the coin and do not always suffer the full consequences of a buyback that most other folks experience. So, the coin is shopped house-to-house by the same owner.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
To my eye, this coin appears to have a light cleaning, common with AU Bust $s, was dipped at some point and retoned. I think Winesteven and Tom Bush explained the reasons why these coins keep coming up for auction. FWIW, I've been looking for one of these in this grade for quite some time, but would not bid on this coin.
Lots of reasonable (and several funny) explanations offered above... If one is interested in such a coin, pay a trusted expert to view it in person and report back. Cheers, RickO
How much does it take to have more money than brains?
Have I just reached it?
Pretty sure I’m in that boat at times.
As for you, I dunno. Only your wife can answer that.
PS, don’t ask.
I have seen very nice coins sell at near or close to the next higher grade at auction, only to be relisted at the same-or other venue later. I believe some have not upgraded and or crossed/CAC'ed, and the consigner is just recouping his costs before rolling the dice once again.