A fun "which PCGS Morgan is AT & which is NT?" game ::Answer Revealed::

braddick · July 7, 2020 4:43PM

Please, if you are able, explain your choice.
Coin 1:

Coin 2:

If the TrueViews are different sizes, I apologize.

CoinJunkie · July 7, 2020 4:46PM

Coin 1:

CoinJunkie · July 7, 2020 4:51PM

I'll guess that coin 2 is NT based on what appears to be some pull away toning at the stars. Don't have a ton of conviction either way. I actually like the color on Coin 1 a bit better, but the fingerprints disqualify it out of hand.

braddick · July 7, 2020 4:55PM

Thanks for the better photo! Easier now to play fair.

coin4sale · July 7, 2020 4:58PM

HI thanks for contest. Ill take a swing.

coin 1 AT
Fingerprint gives me a clue and color over the chin mark looks odd.

Coin 2 NT
toning looks peeled back from stars and motto in right areas, -the toning stretch, is often an indicator of original toning.

Pickwickjr · July 7, 2020 5:00PM

Coin 1 AT the colors look off, there’s no silver around the devices
Coin 2 original. I like how it still has silver around the devices and date. Looks more natural to me.

bolivarshagnasty · July 7, 2020 5:04PM

I’ll go with coin 2 being NT. Elevation color change looks right, and pull-away at date and stars.

Bigbuck1975 · July 7, 2020 5:10PM

Bottom coin NT other AT. No pull away, doesn’t appear to have elevation chromatics, and colors look made to me

blitzdude · July 7, 2020 5:21PM

Both appear AT. Congrats!

Sonorandesertrat · July 7, 2020 5:43PM

Coin 1 looks AT to me.

Smudge · July 7, 2020 6:28PM

Both look AT to me. Forced to choose, agree with the others.

cameonut2011 · July 7, 2020 6:50PM

Both look MA and ugly on my tablet.

jdimmick · July 7, 2020 6:55PM

Coin #1 color look AT applied to the surface

Coin #2 Looks NT color comes from within the coins surface

braddick · July 7, 2020 6:59PM

Yes, top coin is AT and the other is NT according to PCGS.
You guys are good! I thought they were somewhat similar in appearance and thus would make for an interesting comparison.

CoinJunkie · July 7, 2020 7:46PM

@braddick said:
Yes, top coin is AT and the other is NT according to PCGS.
You guys are good! I thought they were somewhat similar in appearance and thus would make for an interesting comparison.

You might want to edit out the cert # from the TV next time. I didn't cheat (until after I posted), but it would remove that temptation.

No Headlights · July 7, 2020 7:51PM

I think you’re fortunate to get either in a straight grade holder. Fun thread. Always learning

Bochiman · July 7, 2020 9:31PM

Looking at the OP, the 1st coin appears too consistently "painted" and clean with the toning. The 2nd coin isn't as perfect. Not only some small pull away toning but also the "white marks" where the toning doesn't cover them (scratches or whatever).

I would go with Coin 1 as AT and coin 2 as NT.

That said, I think whoever did do coin 1 made it look really nice and it would fool a lot of folks.

Zoins · July 8, 2020 2:35AM

The first thing I noticed is the lack of pull away toning on the date in A and the pull away toning on B.

Coin A looks to be part of a mini-series. Out of the following, 3 were graded QC, 1 was graded MA. Guess which one.

It's interesting that all seem to have fingerprints, more noticeable on the 3 singled-sided toners.

All 4 are slabbed with PCGS Gold Shield NFC technology.

Zoins · July 8, 2020 2:47AM

@Bochiman said:
I think whoever did do coin 1 made it look really nice and it would fool a lot of folks.

Would it be better if the people who made these coins could be public?

ricko · July 8, 2020 6:09AM

Late to the game, but would have guessed as the consensus did....and reasons listed. @Zoins, I would guess the third one would be MA....looks like a lot of Morgans I have seen in slabs...The others have what I call 'enhanced' tarnish... no special reason for the term, just a personal assignment. Cheers, RickO

ElmerFusterpuck · July 8, 2020 7:28AM

I would have picked coin #1 as the AT one. The Morgans @Zoins posted are interesting too, lots of "finger painting" going on maybe? I would guess #3 in his post is the NT one,

DelawareDoons · July 8, 2020 8:14AM

The first is AT. That big spot of purple behind the head is no good.

CoinJunkie · July 8, 2020 10:51AM

@Zoins said:
Out of the following, 3 were graded QC, 1 was graded MA. Guess which one.

It's interesting that all seem to have fingerprints, more noticeable on the 3 singled-sided toners.

The top coin is known AT. The bottom coin is 100% AT given the color progressions on the reverse. That leaves the middle two. I made my guess and verified that I was correct. Interesting observation about the fingerprints.

airplanenut · July 8, 2020 11:11AM

Before I saw the answer, I thought #1 was AT. It looks more perfect, and the colors just look a bit off--somehow bold and muted at the same time, especially the orange, which isn't a shade often seen.

Bochiman · July 8, 2020 9:39PM

@Zoins said:

@Bochiman said:
I think whoever did do coin 1 made it look really nice and it would fool a lot of folks.

Would it be better if the people who made these coins could be public?

Sure, but better for who?
For the collector/TPGSs, absolutely.

For the resellers of their stuff, or them themselves, no....and it would likely turn legal and get into the "prove it or I sue you" scenarios.

Bochiman · July 8, 2020 9:43PM

Of the 4 you posted together, and I haven't looked them up so this is my own thoughts.....I don't like any of them for NT.
If I had to guess which one got MA, I would say 2 or 4 and I would lean towards #2 as getting it ONLY because the high points of the hair and cap didn't get toned.
The reverse on #4 looks too much like I mentioned on the obverse of the 1st coin in the OP.

Single side toning, imho, is more likely to be thought of as "non-QC/QT/AT/etc" when compared to others, but it isn't a guarantee.

Zoins · July 8, 2020 10:42PM

@Bochiman said:

@Zoins said:

@Bochiman said:
I think whoever did do coin 1 made it look really nice and it would fool a lot of folks.

Would it be better if the people who made these coins could be public?

Sure, but better for who?
For the collector/TPGSs, absolutely.

For the resellers of their stuff, or them themselves, no....and it would likely turn legal and get into the "prove it or I sue you" scenarios.

Well, if they admit it's AT, then there should be no legal issue right?

I'm thinking doctors should become like Hobo nickel artists. They should sign their work and there should be no question of AT vs. NT. It can be "Art Toned", a term that is becoming more popular on the bay.

Bochiman · July 8, 2020 11:27PM

@Zoins said:

@Bochiman said:

@Zoins said:

@Bochiman said:
I think whoever did do coin 1 made it look really nice and it would fool a lot of folks.

Would it be better if the people who made these coins could be public?

Sure, but better for who?
For the collector/TPGSs, absolutely.

For the resellers of their stuff, or them themselves, no....and it would likely turn legal and get into the "prove it or I sue you" scenarios.

Well, if they admit it's AT, then there should be no legal issue right?

I'm thinking doctors should become like Hobo nickel artists. They should sign their work and there should be no question of AT vs. NT. It can be "Art Toned", a term that is becoming more popular on the bay.

Why would they go for that?
Think what the usual intent of the AT is for..... $$$$$ for being "natural"

If they admit it is AT, what is the likely profit (compared to if they can try to pass it as natural)?

Zoins · July 8, 2020 11:54PM

@Bochiman said:

@Zoins said:

@Bochiman said:

@Zoins said:

@Bochiman said:
I think whoever did do coin 1 made it look really nice and it would fool a lot of folks.

Would it be better if the people who made these coins could be public?

Sure, but better for who?
For the collector/TPGSs, absolutely.

For the resellers of their stuff, or them themselves, no....and it would likely turn legal and get into the "prove it or I sue you" scenarios.

Well, if they admit it's AT, then there should be no legal issue right?

I'm thinking doctors should become like Hobo nickel artists. They should sign their work and there should be no question of AT vs. NT. It can be "Art Toned", a term that is becoming more popular on the bay.

Why would they go for that?
Think what the usual intent of the AT is for..... $$$$$ for being "natural"

If they admit it is AT, what is the likely profit (compared to if they can try to pass it as natural)?

But what if some AT started to sell for $$$$$ too?

After all, some modern art sell for millions

Bochiman · July 9, 2020 12:58AM

You can "what if" until the cows come home and the moon turns to cheese. If it were that simple, they would have already done it, don'tcha think? Why else would they do it? It's for the money. If they could get the money and claim it is their work, they would already be doing that.

Zoins · July 9, 2020 2:01AM

@Bochiman said:
You can "what if" until the cows come home and the moon turns to cheese. If it were that simple, they would have already done it, don'tcha think? Why else would they do it? It's for the money. If they could get the money and claim it is their work, they would already be doing that.

The better PCGS gets good at detecting and QC'ing AT, the less incentive they will have.

I'm surprised by how much PCGS QC coins sell for.

Once PCGS gets good enough, it may be more beneficial to have their to make their work stand out.

So, all I can say now, is go PCGS!

messydesk · July 9, 2020 5:59AM

Of the 4, I'll say #3 is the only one that graded. The fingerprints don't interfere with the toning correctly on the first two. The color pattern is wrong on the last one, weird on the red one, and a familiar AT pattern on the 2nd.

A fun "which PCGS Morgan is AT & which is NT?" game ::Answer Revealed::

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