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Indian Head Quarter Eagle AU 55 Looks Better than MS 61?
stownsin
Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
Hello, everyone.
I got a new Indian Quarter in the mail, yesterday, graded AU 55 by PCGS. I understand that the surface, itself, is the highest "point" and, therefore, is what professional coin graders will look at first when grading these incuse designs.. In this posting, I have a photo comparison of two Indian quarters: the aforementioned AU 55, which is PCGS, and a MS 61, which is graded by NGC. Based on the photos, would the former be worth a regrade? It is a 1914-P, i.e. semi key date, and a MS designation could make a big difference.
Thoughts?
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Better pictures (rotated correctly) might help considerably.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I cannot give a reasonable opinion based on those pictures... somewhat blurry and orientation are preventing good analysis...Cheers, RickO
Just some advice. Don’t assume the two TPGs have the same grading standards. And even if they were the same vendor, grading can vary on any given day (hopefully not too often).
Maybe these are better.
The coin looks AU and heavily hairlined on the reverse.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They didn't all upload. Sorry.
The 1913 looks unappealing, due to the facial scratch and flaw at approximately 1:30 on the obverse. And as mentioned previously, the 1914 is heavily hairlined on the reverse.
These coins are common enough, such that you should be able to do much better by being more discerning and more patient.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
RE: And as mentioned previously, the 1914 is heavily hairlined on the reverse.
Hey MFeld, you're looking at the 1913 reverse that has the noticeable hairlines! The 1914 (in PCGS holder) is the 2nd reverse pic above your post. I do not grade from pics, but carry on.
I was speaking of the reverse of the coin which appears beneath the obverse of the 1914 in two different groups of pictures. I'll leave it to the OP to let us know if he posted the reverse of the 1913 beneath the obverse of the 1914 - if he did, that would certainly be confusing and unfortunate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He did post the '13 reverse under the '14 obverse, look at the holder prongs (NGC vs PCGS). In his last 4 pic post, the order is '14 obverse, '13 reverse, '13 obverse, '14 reverse; certainly a confusing order.
Whenever I try to upload pictures, they seem to post in an unfortunate order, indeed! Yes, the reverse of the 1913 (white NGC holder) is the more heavily hairlined of the two coins.
Indian $2.5 and $5 gold coins have an incused design and they have NO raised rims which would protect the fields when sliding the coins across a counting table or countertop at a bank or merchant's store which is why hairlines are very common on these coins. Also, in addition to high point wear, the loss of luster in the fields is what differentiates an AU coin from a MS coin in this series.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Thank you - hopefully, that will teach me not to look at the coins so much and concentrate more on the holders, instead.
Accordingly, I strongly dislike the 1913.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Load one picture at a time. If you load multiple at one time, they get out of order.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
The 1914 is circulated, note loss of detail when compared to one graded in MS62. See coinfacts, a good reference.
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1914-2-50/images/7946
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Both grades look correct to me. These can be challenging to grade. The first points of wear are the top of the eagles shoulders and the zig zag lines on the Indian's headress.
The 1914 is clearly AU and I hope it never gradeflates its way into an UNC holder. The 1913 is an education piece for you, as in an education not to buy more coins like it. It may be technically UNC but as mentioned the hairlines make the coin less than appealing. Use your new found education as you continue your purchases of this series.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Not a fan of slabbed coins. I have three Indian Head quarter eagles and two Indian Head half eagles - all of which I bought raw. Love being able to handle them as and when I wish and to study them to build up my own knowledge to aid in counterfeit detection. Have two really good reference books on this series.
I go by eye appeal and not the grades and numbers that somebody else assigns. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
Both of these coins are incredibly pretty, and unless an Indian Head has really distinct damage I always find them very attractive coins. I buy to keep - not invest.
When it comes to gold you gotta really good point. I'd be itching to crack'em and stack'em, like poker chips.
Both look about 55 to me.
Haha! I keep mine in airtight Lighthouse coin capsules with the black foam insert. Will show photos at some point, but here are photos of my raw coins...
Still need to take decent pictures of my 1914-D Indian Head quarter eagle.
Can see my first post on them here :https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12716694#Comment_12716694
Would recommend taking a look just to see the lovely toned Indian Head quarter eagle set posted by @jwitten
Wowzers! Speechless. I don't have a clue what the grades are but who cares
Dealer: Did you say "all in"?
Me: Uhhh what? Yea!
Agree.
I can't see either coin well enough to say this definitely applies to these specific coins, but consider the counterpoint to your initial idea. You proposed that if a nicer coin (or one with some "better" feature than that of the other coin) is in a lower grade holder, that could indicate it deserves to be in a higher grade holder. It could just as well indicate that the higher grade coin should be in a lower grade holder.
@CoinscratchFever, would you have not felt comfortable buying those raw coins? 🤔 I know many members would never have done so, but I know just as many who love their raw and expensive gold. Sure, bad things can happen, but we must always remember that these coins didn’t start their lives in slabs! 😂
I’ve had many people look at them - both on here and other places. Considering I bought two of the coins from specialists (one of whom is an NGC Authorised Reseller) and then had them viewed by another specialist via quality photographs over email, I’m quite comfortable with these coins.
That being said, no matter how much knowledge I accrue over this hobby, I always seek the opinions of others. It’s always good to get secondary insight.
I also love it when others show me their raw coins! Feel free to share yours, hehe! 🤓
I would not have a problem buying them raw IF. In person and not on the net, like you and bought them from a respectable dealer, and after some confirmation from the members here as well. And they would most certainly be circulated and at a circulated price. I would not feel comfortable buying them raw and based on some high grade that I'm not experienced in.
All that being said, the gold bug is highly contagious and I'm starting to feel a little feverish
Thanks
Edit: One exception to buying on the net would be from a well-known member here.
@CoinscratchFever
Here here!!!