The True Story of the 1792 Half Disme
philographer
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Thought this was a fascinating read on myth vs. fact with respect to the half disme...
https://sarasotanumismatics.com/news-info/post/the-true-story-of-the-1792-half-disme
He who knows he has enough is rich.
8
Comments
Excellent article....Thanks for the link. Seems to pretty much nail down the history of these little gems. Cheers, RickO
I just emailed the site as follows:
You have an error in the paragraph below: Surely, the research was not published in 1792 : )
The true story of the 1792 Half Disme has only recently been revealed. Thanks to new research by Pete Smith, Joel J. Orosz and Leonard Augsburger, published in 1792: Birth of a Nation's Coinage, we now know that Thomas Jefferson, not President Washington, was central to Half Disme coinage.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Great research and information. I'd love if there was a registry for them to see how many could be accounted for.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Ah, the importance of italics.
Great article though, thanks for sharing!
Pete Smith is a member of my coin club. He did a presentation on how to conduct a census. He went through his process with the 1792 Half Disme. A lot of it had to do with looking through auction catalogs for distinguishing marks so you could trace a coin and determine how many unique coins you could identify. It was very interesting as you could imagine.
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About an hour drive from me.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Did he arrive at a number?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I did not know that the 1792 Half Disme was struck in medallic vs. coin orientation.
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For anyone who wants the book, it's title is "1792: Birth of a Nation's Coinage" well worth the read.
https://www.amazon.com/1792-Nations-Coinage-Pete-Smith/dp/1633512983/
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
Collectors sometimes have trouble pronouncing the word disme. Is it the phonetically obvious "diz-me," or is it the traditional way in which we pronounce dime today (the word into which disme transmogrified)? Actually, the answer is neither. Disme is a French word, pronounced "deem." Thus, the Half Disme is properly pronounced "half deem".
oh boy, here we go again with this mental hot-foot. it's a freakin' Half-Dime.
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I emailed Pete Smith to find out what the count of 1792 Half Disme is. It looks like we are at 181.
Tom:
Here is some information you can provide for the CU Forum:
When 1792: Birth of a Nation's Coinage was published in 2017, we listed 166 unique examples of the 1792 half disme. For each coin we provided a photo, written description and pedigree. Since publication, two of these have been found to be duplicate listings bringing the number down to 164.
Also since publication, we have added an additional 17 pieces to the census. These have been included in 1792: Birth of a Nation's Coinage Addenda that is available on the Newman Numismatic Portal. This is updated periodically and is now a few months out of date.
If any reader of the CU Forum is aware of any example that is not listed in our census, we would like to hear about it so it can be added.
Pete
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Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
Pete Smith sent me an e-mail weighing in on the pronunciation of Half Disme controversy. I think it is a great answer.
Tom:
Here is something else you can report to the Forum:
The pronunciation of disme is a controversy that existed long before publication of our book. If a merchant in Virginia came across the word on the back of a small coin, they would have no way to know how it was pronounced. There was no universal dictionary for word pronunciation across all thirteen states.
It is quite likely that the word was pronounced differently in different communities or even within a community.
Even today, there are words that are pronounced differently in different parts of the country or within cultural groups. This would also have been true in 1792.
Pete
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my thinking has always been that since it is pronounced "Dime" as we say it today that the prevailing pronounciation back at the time of issue was the same. it wouldn't be the first time(nor the last) where a word from a foreign language is changed to suit us, American-ized. history seems to have sorted it out in 1794 when the "s" was dropped and the pronounciation settled.
Bob Julian found a contemporary poem where "disme" was rhymed with "time." I think that tells you how it was pronounced.
The continuing debate about how to pronounce "Disme" makes me tired and takes away from the value of the story and this thread.
That is an excellent point that dropping the "s" in 1794 settling the debate. It makes perfect sense that the prevailing pronunciation was Dime, but that there was inconsistency as Pete mentioned. An inconsistency that the government resolved by dropping the "s" in 1794.
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Then forget about the pronunciation and enjoy the story and this thread.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The article author, Jeff Garrett, describes how the Red Book moved the 1792 half dime from the Pattern section to the regular issue section. However, the page photo shows they simply added the row of prices to the Flowing Hair type section and did not move the 1792 plate photos (there is room left of the Flowing Hair photos) or change the date range from 1794-1795.
Oh, well; there's always the next year's edition....
Here's a link to the Addenda on the Newman Numismatic Portal:
https://archive.org/details/BOANCAddenda/page/n18/mode/1up
What a great find for the metal detectorist. A 1792 half disme.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Was the "S" dropped in 1794?
https://www.numismaticnews.net/article/disme_spelling_changed_to_dime_in_1837
The flowing hair and draped bust types don't have the denomination spelled out.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
Beans, now I have to spend $75,000 or more to complete my type set.
Actual written documentation supports this finding regarding the 1792 half dimes and Thomas Jefferson! Isn't it amazing that the made up story about George Washington and the half dimes was able to persist since the 1840's.
How many other made up stories are out there being used to promote "rare" US coins?
I seem to remember reading this story in the The Numismatist a year or two ago in which the legend of the Washington donation of their tea sets and tableware was debunked and the case for Jefferson’s role was made.
Half Dimes are what I love, but I'll never have a Half Disme in my collection.
(or an 1802 for that matter)
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
What deem of the day was that poem published?
The continuing debate about how to pronounce "Disme" makes me tired and takes away from the value of the story and this thread.
I wouldn't get too sentimental about this "Numismatic Urban Myth" unless you are prepared to be sad when the next real truth about it comes out. this coin issue and everything about it is best Romanticized in a fashion which makes us happy. this current version does that, but so did its predecessor and probably so will its successor.