Surprising. I love the coin, I'm just not seeing cleaned anywhere on that coin. The spot that initially came to mind was the space under TRUST that is free of toning, but a close look takes away any concern I have about that spot. That's a hard one to swallow.
Oh . . . . wow. That is such a nice Peace dollar . . . and the toning is 100% straight on. Soooooo . . . cleaned 80 years ago before that natural toning covered it up???
I have a Flying Eagle that is just an XF40-45, but I have included it in a few submissions . . . . always comes back "cleaned". I am going to keep submitting until finally I get a grade. Just a pride thing. No evidence even under a 30-power that I, or anyone else can see . . . but it is fun to submit, and I am doing my part to help pay for these Forums I love so much . . . .
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@roadrunner said:
Nice 63/64 coin. You might even get a color 1 point bump. Not good enough obverse photo to evaluate a 65 shot. I don't see it so far. MS all the way. Might be a slice or two across the cheek, well hidden under the toning. But, they don't hide from the TPG graders. PCGS will probably be stricter on this because of the color. If there was a MS65 shot in your future.... I'd go with NGC who tends to give a bonus for interesting mottled toning.......as generic pricing isn't that widely spread on these.
Sounds like that was good advice. Still not too late depending on how much you want to "invest" in grading fees. Even a resubmission raw at PCGS might be worth the effort.
Mr Keets I have had three instances where I cracked from one TPG and sent to another TPG and received different results. Two times in my favor one time not. Getting a second opinion given the 15 seconds a grader looks at the coin, is not a bad idea if the juice is worth the squeeze so to speak.
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I honestly do not see any evidence of hairlines at all on either side of this coin. I do not have a membership at the other TPG and overall I was very happy with the results of the 8 coin submission. 6 of the coins graded which included 4 raw Trade $'s, a bust quarter and a 3 cent silver. Luckily the 2 coins that got genuined were the 2 that I paid the least for.
@TennesseeDave said:
I honestly do not see any evidence of hairlines at all on either side of this coin. I do not have a membership at the other TPG and overall I was very happy with the results of the 8 coin submission. 6 of the coins graded which included 4 raw Trade $'s, a bust quarter and a 3 cent silver. Luckily the 2 coins that got genuined were the 2 that I paid the least for.
Cleaning doesn’t always result in apparent hairlines.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said:
Without seeing the coin in hand, I think it’s pure folly for us to try to guess where the cleaning is.
It is speculation...not folly.
You’re right, it’s speculation.
And that speculation is folly.😄
Well, to be fair, if someone posts a coin and ask for speculation, it seems rude to just ignore the question.
Many opinions were given and guesses made about whether the coin would receive a straight grade. And if so, what the grade would be. So there was plenty of speculation provided (based upon what could be seen in the pictures).
But I don’t remember posters opining that the coin looked cleaned. So apparently there wasn’t anything apparent in the pictures, which led to a conclusion of “cleaned”. Assuming that the coin has been cleaned, for all we know it might have been on either side or even both sides.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said:
Without seeing the coin in hand, I think it’s pure folly for us to try to guess where the cleaning is.
It is speculation...not folly.
You’re right, it’s speculation.
And that speculation is folly.😄
Well, to be fair, if someone posts a coin and ask for speculation, it seems rude to just ignore the question.
Many opinions were given and guesses made about whether the coin would receive a straight grade. And if so, what the grade would be. So there was plenty of speculation provided (based upon what could be seen in the pictures).
But I don’t remember posters opining that the coin looked cleaned. So apparently there wasn’t anything apparent in the pictures, which led to a conclusion of “cleaned”. Assuming that the coin has been cleaned, for all we know it might have been on either side or even both sides.
Well, I'm a firm believer in NOT grading coins from photos.
That said, if we eliminate speculation on coin photos, we're going to be down to nothing but threads about joey's pocket change pretty quickly...
I'm just speculating on the obverse because I've never liked the look of that. Easy for me to imagine that it is detergent enhanced toning. (DET) LOL. By which I mean that it toned over the dipped/cleaned surface.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Looking at the TV, I guess my reaction is, "huh." Maybe in hand my reaction would be different, maybe not. To say one way or the other would be speculation.
Cleaning doesn’t always result in apparent hairlines.
as Mark has said, just because there are no apparent hairlines doesn't mean that the PCGS graders could discern no clear evidence of the coin having been cleaned. I have dipped enough coins in E-Z-Est to be familiar with what happens when I don't properly or completely rinse off the dip residue. the resulting color(s) tend to be yellow, gold and brown similar to what is shown in the OP raw pictures. it has even been suggested at this very forum that members should attempt to improperly rinse dipped coins to see what happens.
it is entirely probable that the graders at PCGS interpreted this coin in that manner. it is also possible that they saw other signs of cleaning. further, it is possible that if the coin is sent to NGC that it will grade.
coins such as this are what we see when there is a fever for any toned Peace Dollar, a feeding frenzy if you will.
@jerseycat101 said:
I think you got a raw deal on that one.
That's a beautiful Peace Dollar, and undeniably NT in my opinion. I would try again here or ATS.
I think it's a 64 or 64+.
And yet, for all we know, if you were to see it in hand, you might very well agree that the coin has been cleaned.
I give the very large benefit of the doubt to the grading company, who has actually seen the coin. Before recommending a re-grade or a different grading company, I strongly suggest showing the coin to one or more knowledgeable numismatists for a free opinion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@jerseycat101 said:
I think you got a raw deal on that one.
That's a beautiful Peace Dollar, and undeniably NT in my opinion. I would try again here or ATS.
I think it's a 64 or 64+.
And yet, for all we know, if you were to see it in hand, you might very well agree that the coin has been cleaned.
I give the very large benefit of the doubt to the grading company, who has actually seen the coin. Before recommending a re-grade or a different grading company, I strongly suggest showing the coin to one or more knowledgeable numismatists for a free opinion.
My apologies. I mis-read and thought the coin body-bagged for artificial toning.
@jerseycat101 said:
I think you got a raw deal on that one.
That's a beautiful Peace Dollar, and undeniably NT in my opinion. I would try again here or ATS.
I think it's a 64 or 64+.
And yet, for all we know, if you were to see it in hand, you might very well agree that the coin has been cleaned.
I give the very large benefit of the doubt to the grading company, who has actually seen the coin. Before recommending a re-grade or a different grading company, I strongly suggest showing the coin to one or more knowledgeable numismatists for a free opinion.
My apologies. I mis-read and thought the coin body-bagged for artificial toning.
You are 100% right.
No apology owed and I’m glad you agree, as I’m under the impression that you know your stuff.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm not concerned at all that it did not grade. I had hoped that it would straight grade so if and when I decided to part with it that I could reap the maximum reward. But I love how the coin looks and it does not look like a cleaned coin to my eyes and it's one of the cheapest coins I have bought in several years. I do not intend to sell it, just enjoy it. Thanks for all your replies and opinions and carry on if you have more to say.
@TennesseeDave said:
I'm not concerned at all that it did not grade. I had hoped that it would straight grade so if and when I decided to part with it that I could reap the maximum reward. But I love how the coin looks and it does not look like a cleaned coin to my eyes and it's one of the cheapest coins I have bought in several years. I do not intend to sell it, just enjoy it. Thanks for all your replies and opinions and carry on if you have more to say.
Comments
I am surprised, but who knows.
Sorry about your result, just goes to show how hard it is to grade from photos.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Try again.
Surprising. I love the coin, I'm just not seeing cleaned anywhere on that coin. The spot that initially came to mind was the space under TRUST that is free of toning, but a close look takes away any concern I have about that spot. That's a hard one to swallow.
Oh . . . . wow. That is such a nice Peace dollar . . . and the toning is 100% straight on. Soooooo . . . cleaned 80 years ago before that natural toning covered it up???
I have a Flying Eagle that is just an XF40-45, but I have included it in a few submissions . . . . always comes back "cleaned". I am going to keep submitting until finally I get a grade. Just a pride thing. No evidence even under a 30-power that I, or anyone else can see . . . but it is fun to submit, and I am doing my part to help pay for these Forums I love so much . . . .
Drunner
I would guess the obverse.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Crack out and resend to Florida?
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I wonder how would that work? Hairlines we can’t see in pics? A spot cleaning somewhere?
Might be as simple as reduced luster. I'm guessing (just guessing) that they feel the obverse was chemically cleaned and then toned over.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Without seeing the coin in hand, I think it’s pure folly for us to try to guess where the cleaning is.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sounds like that was good advice. Still not too late depending on how much you want to "invest" in grading fees. Even a resubmission raw at PCGS might be worth the effort.
I would try at NGC.
It is speculation...not folly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Crack out and resend to Florida?
yes, send good money after bad and watch it return "Questionable Color" or something along those lines.
Mr Keets I have had three instances where I cracked from one TPG and sent to another TPG and received different results. Two times in my favor one time not. Getting a second opinion given the 15 seconds a grader looks at the coin, is not a bad idea if the juice is worth the squeeze so to speak.
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I honestly do not see any evidence of hairlines at all on either side of this coin. I do not have a membership at the other TPG and overall I was very happy with the results of the 8 coin submission. 6 of the coins graded which included 4 raw Trade $'s, a bust quarter and a 3 cent silver. Luckily the 2 coins that got genuined were the 2 that I paid the least for.
Not sure shipping to NGC is a "better" option.
I'd love if someone at PCGS, our hosts, can explain this one.
Too many scratching there heads, sure merits at least some feedback.
You got very bad grader.
:'( Sorry man! Very disappointing,I'm sure.
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--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I appreciate a toned coin, but...not that one...even if it straight graded.
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Cleaning doesn’t always result in apparent hairlines.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You’re right, it’s speculation.
And that speculation is folly.😄
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
---Max--- images for those that just need to scratch the itch
probably a 12mb image so you are forewarned.
was this a shield submission?
Well, to be fair, if someone posts a coin and ask for speculation, it seems rude to just ignore the question.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Or a very good one...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Just regular submission with Platinum membership.
Many opinions were given and guesses made about whether the coin would receive a straight grade. And if so, what the grade would be. So there was plenty of speculation provided (based upon what could be seen in the pictures).
But I don’t remember posters opining that the coin looked cleaned. So apparently there wasn’t anything apparent in the pictures, which led to a conclusion of “cleaned”. Assuming that the coin has been cleaned, for all we know it might have been on either side or even both sides.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Well, I'm a firm believer in NOT grading coins from photos.
That said, if we eliminate speculation on coin photos, we're going to be down to nothing but threads about joey's pocket change pretty quickly...
I'm just speculating on the obverse because I've never liked the look of that. Easy for me to imagine that it is detergent enhanced toning. (DET) LOL. By which I mean that it toned over the dipped/cleaned surface.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Looking at the TV, I guess my reaction is, "huh." Maybe in hand my reaction would be different, maybe not. To say one way or the other would be speculation.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Seems like you might need a reminder about how the internet works
I like how the color is consistent and even across Liberty's face and tiara.
Cleaning doesn’t always result in apparent hairlines.
as Mark has said, just because there are no apparent hairlines doesn't mean that the PCGS graders could discern no clear evidence of the coin having been cleaned. I have dipped enough coins in E-Z-Est to be familiar with what happens when I don't properly or completely rinse off the dip residue. the resulting color(s) tend to be yellow, gold and brown similar to what is shown in the OP raw pictures. it has even been suggested at this very forum that members should attempt to improperly rinse dipped coins to see what happens.
it is entirely probable that the graders at PCGS interpreted this coin in that manner. it is also possible that they saw other signs of cleaning. further, it is possible that if the coin is sent to NGC that it will grade.
coins such as this are what we see when there is a fever for any toned Peace Dollar, a feeding frenzy if you will.
I think you got a raw deal on that one.
That's a beautiful Peace Dollar, and undeniably NT in my opinion. I would try again here or ATS.
I think it's a 64 or 64+.
And yet, for all we know, if you were to see it in hand, you might very well agree that the coin has been cleaned.
I give the very large benefit of the doubt to the grading company, who has actually seen the coin. Before recommending a re-grade or a different grading company, I strongly suggest showing the coin to one or more knowledgeable numismatists for a free opinion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My apologies. I mis-read and thought the coin body-bagged for artificial toning.
You are 100% right.
No apology owed and I’m glad you agree, as I’m under the impression that you know your stuff.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm not concerned at all that it did not grade. I had hoped that it would straight grade so if and when I decided to part with it that I could reap the maximum reward. But I love how the coin looks and it does not look like a cleaned coin to my eyes and it's one of the cheapest coins I have bought in several years. I do not intend to sell it, just enjoy it. Thanks for all your replies and opinions and carry on if you have more to say.
I would love to see this coin in person somehow!