1904 $5 Liberty INS Holder
Azurescens
Posts: 2,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
I thought this was pretty neat and wanted to share. 
I haven't seen gold in one yet so this is a first for me!
Thoughts on grade? Just generally wondering where I fall on this. Not the prettiest 1904, I know, but I like the bit of character it has. Just a neat coin in a neat holder with a story to tell :-) and I'm really happy to add this to my collection.
4
Comments
Before what grading? I didn't see any grade.
A coin for slab collectors. It is authentication only.
62
I like it, very nice !!!
Obv. looks 62, Rev. looks 63
There's numerous hairlines in the fields. MS61.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
62 congrats!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Interesting old holder (is that grade MS63 on the holder really there, or your attempt to blur it out for a GTG?)...I would say, if it is on the holder, it is a tad generous. Cheers, RickO
Cool old holder.
I like old holders like this... nice pickup!
I get that. However the "slab" text has a lengthy explanation of how the "grading" works.
An ill conceived concept it seems.
Neat coin and neat old holder. Reminds me of the old large PCI slabs with the coin next to the photo of the coin. They both appear to be the same size and the shells may be identical.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Insider2 provided historical info on INS from when he worked there. Peace
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Pretty cool.
My YouTube Channel
Certainly, at the time INS was quite reputable. However, grading standards were all over the block. Some technical still following ANA standards, others very much market grading.
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
I think the seller blurred it because of the Ebay MS-XX policy.
Putting all this info in one place. Courtesy of collector universe and coin talk.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1008007/so-what-is-up-with-ins-coin-holders-i-e-international-numismatic-society
@insider2 posted:
"The International Numismatic Society (INS) was established in DC around 1975 - 76 (I forgot) by Charles Hoskins and a group of well-established US, world, and ancient coin dealers when ANACS left DC and Hoskins (the Director of ANACS) and most of the staff elected to stay behind. Chuck and I worked at INS's Authentication Bureau. We authenticated ancients, tokens, medals, and coins from any country or era. INSAB was the service that authenticated the 1870-S Half dime after it was discovered. The INS had several yearly conventions with auctions in Washington, DC.
Before leaving ANACS Charlie and I were at the first grading roundtable where plans were being made for the ANA to start grading coins after the publication of a grading guide. ANACS was moved to CO before the guide was published. INS was the FIRST THIRD-PARTY COIN GRADING SERVICE beating the ANA by several months. Charlie and I graded coins for free upon request an sent out our opinion on a separate card from the Photo Certificate of Authenticity. As soon as the ANA started charging folks for a grading opinion we began charging extra for grading. Unfortunately, The ANA system of grading had some major flaws - chief of which was to combine the amount of wear on a coin with the number of marks. Additionally, while they claimed to have a technical grading system, no one there actually had a clue as they were never taught the system so they bastardized it. Then one day one-day coins graded MS-65 became MS-63's when they had to conform to the marketplace.
We used the "technical grading system" I devised for the internal records of ANACS when I worked there. This "true" technical system was based on the old standards of "No trace of wear." Since it was very strict, the grading was very precise with no wiggle room and very little subjectivity. The system was designed so that a coin would always be the same grade over time as long as its condition did not change. We were only concerned with its condition of preservation from when it was struck so a flat strike and eye appeal were not that important. The system was to identify a coin along with a weight and photo - NOT TO PLACE A VALUE ON IT. That was the job of the coin dealers. Obviously, this did not work in the marketplace. Nevertheless, INSAB stayed in business until the early 1990's. I left in the late 1980's."
From Conder101 on NGC boards:
INS was the second authentication service. They started up in 1975 just a couple years after ANACS (ANACS started in 1972 not 1974 as the MyCoinCollecting site says.) It was based in Washington DC, the same place as ANACS at the time. There earliest holders used Polaroid images of the coins and the certification was on a separate certificate, at first a postcard size and then later an 8 1/2 X 11 one ith much more detail about the coin. In 1976 Charles Hoskins left as director of ANACS and moved to INS where he became the company President. In 1979 they added grading to their certificates as well.
@PerryHall
In 1985 they licensed the use of the photoslab shells from Accugrade and began produced slabbed coins. The one Prudden posted is either an INS-3 or and INS-4 slab the difference being the addition of a serial number on the back of the INS-4.
In 1992 the company relocated to Philadelphia PA. The slabs changed to an orange label and the words Authentication Bureau were replaced with a Coin Capsule logo.
The last INS slab seen dates from 1997. The company has relocated once again and i now in Aston PA. The label is now a yellow orange and the INS has a new logo. At this point I think the company was now little more than Charles Hoskins just doing soe slabbing on the side. Aston PA is the last known address I have for him. INS -5 slabs from Philadelphia are few and far between, then with the five year jump before the INS-6 slab is probably a good indication that the company was pretty much defunct. Only one example of the INS-6 slab has been seen.
The slab company information on the Error World Administrators page came from me. I gave Jan Schwenk the information in answer to a question from him, and he then "generously donated it" to the website without asking me. Later when someone pointed out the website to me I agreed they could keep it and provided the information on companies 74 through 83. They attributed the information to Kerridee which is my sister-in-laws craft company. (My computer was down and I provided the information through her computer.)
Had no idea 1904 $5 were hard to find.
Good eye ;-)
"In 1985 they licensed the use of the photoslab shells from Accugrade and began produced slabbed coins. The one Prudden posted is either an INS-3 or and INS-4 slab the difference being the addition of a serial number on the back of the INS-4."
She arrived today and is fantastic. The PCI and INS slabs actually interlock perfectly with each other. Looks much better in hand. Still not great pics, but better.
The appealing qualities more than make up for the bagginess for me.
My PCI 1/10oz $5 AGE weighs 57.1g and is 2.5" x 4". It is approximately 0.75cm thick.
This 1904 $5 Liberty half eagle, however, weighs 64.6g and is approximately 1 cm thick. If they were the same exact cases, this would be under 60 grams.
The plastic on both is smooth all over except for the coin housing itself, which is a frosted and textured plastic.
The half eagle is pretty loose in there but doesn't wanna rotate. This is what I imagined when people said "rattlers" regarding PCGS. It has a little more heft to it and has a better center of gravity than the PCI, which seems to wanna flip out of my hands on it's own. They're terribly balanced but I'd venture a guess a heavier coin in here feels dandy.
The other coins don't have much to do with anything j just thought they were pretty and wanted to share. I really appreciate everyone's help with me getting better at this (slowly but surely).
**If anyone quotes my posts above with the INS info and Skip's first hand account, it's more likely to stay cached and searchable on the internet. Not sure if anyone even cares about that sort of thing anymore. But if my account got deleted or banned, it'd still be here.
You mentioned "My Accugrade 1/10oz $5 AGE...", though the picture shows Photo-Certified Coin Institute (PCI).
Accugrade and PCI are 2 different companies.
I think PCI started around 1987-89 with the large holders and moved to smaller ones in the early 1990's. Presumably they also licensed the large holder from Accugrade. Until someone posted about the large Accugrade holders here in the last couple of years or so, I wasn't aware they even made them. I had thought until then that PCI started the large photo holders, but even the INS had started using those earlier.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Grading was pretty tight all around the coin market in 1987-1988. So at MS63 this was pretty close back then. Maybe closer to 62. In any case it looks no worse than a 62 today. But, I think it would grade out the same today as MS63. The reverse is 64ish.
@Azurescens - FWIW, at least one INS 6 still exists. It has a '34 Merc in it - so Conder could have afforded it...
@WinLoseWin - whether PCI licensed from ACG isn't known. However, the 2-compartment PCI slab would not have been covered by the ACG Patent which explicitly calls it a 3-compartment item. At the cost of die-cutting out the labels, you've engineered around the patent.
PCI switched to the smaller holders when they bough Hallmark's assets.
The 2-compartment slab went on to be used by several companies.
Lastly, the shells and tooling for the 3-compartment Accugrade slab were in use at least as late as 2004.
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
Thank you so very much!!
@bstrauss3
Ugh I've had them on my mind and PCI just didn't translate and I guess ran with it. Sorry about that. But thank you for the correction so I can fix my posts.
The big PCI on the front yeah that accugrade, lmao. Thanks.