Stack's nailed this description!!
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
In their auction Session which closed Thursday evening, Stack's had described the below pictured coin in part by saying only the strongest bids will be competitive for this awe-inspiring Walking Liberty half dollar. It closed at $2,160 w/juice(almost 10x PCGS price guide) and past what I had bid early on. I have noticed that 1945-S Walkers tend to come toned nicely, but this is nicer than most even though it is probably a tad darker than pictured.
Nice!!!
Al H.
5
Comments
One of the ugliest walker I've seen.
I like the reverse that's about it
This toning fad will end badly. Imho
Such a shame.... the tarnish destroys a beautiful design....I would not buy it at any price. Cheers, RickO
Nice coin with average strike. Got a 1 point color bump. In 1989 that coin might have been graded MS64. Quite a bit of chatter across the front center and the lower reverse wing area. The auction house did a great job for that consignor.
Agree on quality and strike, but I think the color bump is a full 2 points. I am unable to assign a 65 or above to a coin with that much noise in the 'dreaded right field'. Great day for the consignor, great job by the auction house.
Gray bid sheet less 30%.
The whole missing hand thing has always bothered me about Walkers and this one seems to have that affliction as well. Then with the toning that seems so dark that it is terminal, having eaten through the luster layer and beyond just doesn't work for me either. But of course I am only judging from one photo. The coin would not be for me. Hopefully the winner of the auction is happy. That's all that matters,
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
If that’s your thinking on such coins, you can save some time and not bother to do the calculations.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
OK, I'll just do 40% below bid and leave it at that.
Price seems ok. Would need to see the coin to make sure the darkest toning layer has full luster through it and is not yet term. For those saying “10x price guide”, why care about a price guide when no two coins look the same? Especially for something with a low base price.
Can you find thousands of walkers that look like this? Because that’s what the price guide you’re quoting is based on.
I think it's gorgeous in the images and I don't care what it graded or whether it "deserved" it or not. However, I believe that the TrueView in this instance is truly capturing the coin at its aesthetic strongest and that the obverse rim will not only be dark, but will be far less lustrous. The key to the in-hand eye appeal, in my opinion, will be how much luster is buried in that deep toning. If it sparkles with luster then the coin might be phenomenal, if it is dark and burnt and muted then the owner has a great image of a coin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
my thinking when I saw the price was that the coin sold to someone who had viewed it in-hand. I'm not trying to defend the coin, but to my way of thinking all the "chatter" is simply "S" Mint strike weakness, what we are seeing is simply unstruck planchet flaws. certainly there is the disturbance in the right field(common with most Walkers to some degree) and some light abrasion(s) on the reverse, but on balance the grade seems appropriate.
it isn't the tone or the grade of MS66 that shocked me, it was the final price. the longer I work on my Walker set the more I understand the way a coin's different characteristics combine to form the grade and the way the different Mints ability to strike coins differed.
below is my 1945-S Walker. what do you think it grades(hopefully you won't cheat) and how do you think it compares to the OP coin??
If the photo is accurate, I think it is gorgeous. Nicely toned WLH are tough to find.
S? Edit not sure about that.
The color on this coin is not the problem for me. I think the darker area will be thick with color and lustre underneath. It will likely be better then the image. Toned 45-s Walkers almost always come with the same dabbled toning pattern around the peripherie. Zillions like that. This toned example is different. What I don’t like about the coin is that it’s a 63/64 technically. The key with buying toned Walkers is to find them attractively toned and all there for the grade. It look me 12 years to put a short set together.
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
People have been saying that for 20 years. One day they might be right. It’s actually likely at some point. But if that does happen it will be a blow for the market. It’s not like toned collectors are going to start buying blast white dipped out coins or brown and crusty original skinned coins. They just aren’t wired that way. They will likely just move on to another hobby altogether or perhaps collect gold instead.
For the record I sold 95% of my extensive toned collection over the past year as I did fear the market was starting to over heat BUT I also wanted the funds to put towards a different pursuit. So I do know where you are coming from
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I, for one, started doing that over a decade ago. I don't want my Bust halves or early type or 18-19th century British silver with wild iridescent rainbow color. Not only does it look off to my eye, it severely limits the pool of candidate coins. OTOH, with mint set era US coins or Morgans, color coins are ubiquitous and usually more original (not to mention beautiful) than white coins. Horses for courses.
As the old saying goes: All generalizations are bad.
I can sign up for that.
My toned collection was 90% comprised Walkers and Commems and color wise made sense and didn’t look out of place to my eye
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I was watching it and thought the price was strong. It’s definitely a coin that will go for multiples of guide in today’s market (it just went for more than I felt comfortable with).
Here is a video one of the former owners of the coin posted:
I remember big premiums for toning back in the '70's but in those days even 70% premiums seemed about astronomical.
Sometimes toning can make a coin look a great deal better and this is one of those cases. It's a nice '45-S but with toning it's great!
@keets The OP's coin looks much better than yours. Maybe the pictures are off but yours seems to be void of luster but with a decent strike. I'd say 64, in hand maybe its a 65.
Oh wait a minute your the OP
but you know what I mean.
yours seems to be void of luster
it isn't "void" of luster but the reason I posted it was to show how good the luster is on the Stack's coin.
I know everyone wants me to use MORE words. But every time I try to be concise, people misconstrue what I'm saying.
First of all, the premiums have grown in the last few years. So the market was nowhere near as bifurcated 20 years ago. This 10x premium for color didn't exist 20 years ago or even 10 years ago, at least not as frequently.
The other issue is the continuing toning. What color were these coins 20 years ago? What color will they be 20 years from now?
It's also not "blast white" versus toned. It's the color of the toning, for example. A hint of gold could be popular rather than Walt Disney dark rainbows. Or dark rainbows may be the rage and not lightly toned. Or whatever.
Paying a huge premium for a possibly unstable color fad seems risky.
What is more likely 10 years from now: The 10x premium is 15x or the 10x premium is 5x?
That's the thing. Even if there is still a premium 10 years from now, how big is it?
Hey, you never know. Sometimes something sneaks through...
Oddly, I wouldn't even try to buy a blast white coin at 30% back of grey
We often find "over graded" coins here, and beat them to death. Sometimes, it seems valid....sometimes, the issue is probably that WE'VE NEVER SEEN THE COIN IN HAND!!!
This video makes that clear. Whether it sold for too much is still open for debate...but it is a beautiful coin.
Added: Wonder why auction companies don't use video presentations more often? Seems like it would be helpful in a case like this....
Poorly struck, common date that would turn no one's head if it hadn't been kept in a bad environment for far too long. It is obvious that many like the color, but I will never understand the willingness to pay so much for what I see as an inferior coin. Then again, I know little.
Obv is way too dark for me. Dip that sucker! Peace Roy
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I find the reverse to be more attractively toned than the obverse in some respects. The really dark bit is a turn-off for me. As for the premium being 10x, I think it was higher than that, because the without the toning this coin grades 64 or 65. So did the buyer pay part of a toning premium twice when some of it was built into the eye-appeal part of the grade that bumped it to 66? No idea, since toning is so unique and so much about personal preference. Since it was an auction lot, there must have been at least some degree of consensus that it was worth over $2K.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Poorly struck, common date that would turn no one's head if it hadn't been kept in a bad environment for far too long.
go study the series a little more and then comment. thanks in advance.
This is the key for me. The color needs to make sense and I like it if I can rationalize how it got to be the color that it did. Otherwise, I look for the crusty brown and gray toned coins that appear (we actually never know for sure) to be original.
As an early type collector, I steer clear of bright white coins because they don't make sense to me. Silver changes color. That's just my collecting philosophy.
In my opinion, anytime you have extreme prices, in anything, that "can't be rationalized" then there will be a correction at some point in time. That goes for coins, stocks or any other investment or collector material.
Not a coin that I would want at half of bid.
So you could care less about quickly flipping it for a nice profit?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Here's the Stack's lot. It shows the TrueView but I'm happy to see the Stack's photos for coin and slab photos.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-N4IOZ/1945-s-walking-liberty-half-dollar-ms-66-pcgs
Not a coin that I would want at half of bid.
I can fix that for you: Not a coin that I would want.
adding the part that I deleted makes no sense.