Key dates ain't what they used to be...or...how have key dates changed?
MidLifeCrisis
Posts: 10,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've listed below some of the coins that were known as "key dates" when I was a kid over 40 years ago. I wonder how many are still considered key dates and how many are now recognized as much more common and available than once thought. I know most coins are more readily available now, but if you were putting together a "key date type set" which of these coins would you NOT include because it's no longer considered a key date?
1856 Flying Eagle Cent
1877 Indian Head Cent
1909-S Indian Head Cent
1909-S Lincoln Cent
1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent
1914-D Lincoln Cent
1922 No D Lincoln Cent Strong Reverse
1931-S Lincoln Cent
1912-S Liberty Head V Nickel
1916-D Mercury Dime
1921 Mercury Dime
1921-D Mercury Dime
1916 Standing Liberty Quarter
1921 Walking Liberty Half Dollar
1921-D Walking Liberty Half Dollar
1893-S Morgan Dollar
1934-S Peace Dollar
1911-D Indian Head Eagle
Comments
Off the top of my head, I would add:
1955 DDO cent
1918/7-D, 1916 DDO, 1937-D 3-Leg Buffalo nickels
1942/1 and 1942/1-D dimes
1918/7-S SLQ
1928 Peace dollar
1911-D Indian Quarter eagle in addition to many other key date US gold coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Thanks. I think you mean you would add these to the list of key dates. There are many more that we could add. But that's not what I was getting at. I'm wondering what coins used to be considered key dates but are no longer.
The term "Key date" is a marketing term that has different meanings to different persons.
Similar to the term "Rare coin".
I would include all coins you listed in a Key date set assembled today, primarily due to custom and inertia.
However, unlike the days before e-commerce, I suspect that one who desires immediate gratification would be able to easily find, acquire and possess an example of each coin on your list within a week's time.
The ability to quickly find and acquire almost any US coin in a short period of time in 2020 most definitely would have some impact on how one views and defines the term Key date.
The 1916-D as a key for the Mercury Dime Series is a LIE that is perpetuated by all of those that read the mintage figures in the Red Book as an 8 year old child. In 2012 I did a Mint State key date analysis for Mercury Dimes to drive this point home. I need to revisit this to re-do all of it...and much more thoroughly while adding commentary on how things have changed over the last 8 years. Maybe next week? Lol In your post, you mention the 16-D, 21 and 21-D...and NONE of those are the KEY to the series.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/858446/mercury-dime-key-semi-key-analysis/p1
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Well said. Thanks for putting into words the idea I had floating around in my head.
Yup, when a billionaire can just show up and build an accumulation of everything to have nearly all of the top sets (via Registry Points) within just a couple of years...nothing is difficult if you have the money. Specialty sets like varieties is where things can get a bit more difficult though.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Thanks for linking that old thread. It was a great accomplishment by you. It was also nice to see how engaged I was in that discussion.
I had to go look to refresh my memory.
You were quite engaged in that discussion.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I still think of all of them as key dates. They may all be available easily enough but the fact remains that for most collectors they are aspirational coins that they may never have enough money to own.
If we redefine key date to mean where surviving examples are so low that each example is $10K or more then it would be a very different list. And also never achievable for the majority of collectors so who would care other than registry addicts or the über wealthy?
The 1934-S Peace Dollar is only a key date in higher grades. There would always be several in groups of Silver Dollars that I got from the bank in the early 1960's.
I would remove those that are readily available in nice UNC condition for a price, but that's my definition of "key". Different than when we were kids: 09S and SVDB; 31S. Those were impossible to find in circulation back in the day, although a really clean UNC 31S can be a challenge. Nice S Lincolns in the 20's, some teens are tough, headed by the 26S. I would add the Merc 26S, in nice UNC, a really tough coin, for me anyway. I'm sure there are many many more as we move back into the 19th century, or look deeper at Buffs, SLQ's, etc. I'm just looking at the series I thought about as a kid.
To toss a bit of a twist into the discussion:
I've always viewed "key dates" as the coin that will COST you the most if you are attempting to build a full set.
Now, under normal conditions, rarity and cost are essentially the same thing...unless there is a reason the market conditions say they aren't. That's where perception might screw up what is really the rarest. But the most costly is still the "key date".
Read my Mercury Key Date Analysis from 2012 and you will see that the 26-S IS THE KEY of the series in MS or MSFB. Go to any FUN show and you can find many MS 16-Ds either in auction or at dealer cases. For the 26-S most of the time none but sometimes 1 or 2.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Thanks, took me over a year to find a nice 64. Sadly, sold my Mercs. Should have kept the 26S as it was and maybe still is underpriced relative to its sisters, IMO.
@MidLifeCrisis perhaps identifying the CAC pops for these dates will be illuminating in order to determine quality for grade rarity.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I think a fair definition of key date that would be still objective could be any coin in a series that is monetarily valued at a significant multiple of what other coins in the same series cost.
In the old days, the key date in a series was the last coin the average collector needed to complete his coin set. The other better dates in that series were called semi-key date coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
There was an interesting thread with people posting pictures of "internet keys", The criteria was a mintage of 1,000+, non-variety regularly issued US coins that you can't find RIGHT NOW for sale via the internet. I forget what, if anything was listed at the time.
Do this with world coins and it gets significantly easier.
I can remember when the 1936 D Washington quarter was a key date.
The traditional key date analysis has changed based on condition rarity and the grade sought by the collector.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
They are only "keys" until the Chinamen crank out more. Congrats!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Most collectors of the series aren't collecting it in UNC since they can't afford it. For the majority, the five traditional coins (16-D, 21-P, 21-D, 42/41-P and 42/41-D) presumably are still "key" due to the cost but not any scarcity.
Every coin in the OP list can be bought in multiple in a single day in "high quality", all the time, except to satisfy a narrow eye-appeal preference. Due to this, the only reason to consider any on the list "key" now is due to the cost. By this standard, I'd remove the 31-S cent and leave all the others.
Seems like this list would be dominated by the Capped head and scarcer date liberty head gold. Maybe a few Seated coins also. I'd be surprised if there is anything else.
The key dates of interest to me are the ones famous enough to stand on their own, outside of date collecting. I think this may become more popular as more collectors shift to type collecting, so the idea is that if you only get one, get one that is meaningful.
The main key dates I like include:
I like the 1955 DDO cent a lot, but I don't really consider that a key date.
I would say that the 1919 DDO-001 is the undisputed king of the Mercury 10c, at least of the regular set plus the major varieties.
A “key date” typically refers to a date of a coin series that is harder to obtain than other dates in the series.
For differing but (hopefully) obvious reasons, I don’t think the 1804 dollar, 1913 nickel and 1933 Saint would qualify.
Edited to add : That said, of the three, I believe that the 1933 Saint has by far, the best legitimate claim to being considered a “key date”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is essentially the reason why I collect home-state medals and tokens. I've always been intrigued by the rarity factor, and these are actually quite rare (or, at least, appear very infrequently in the numismatic market).
Speaking of Washington quarters, historically, the keys are the 32D and 32S, possibly adding the 36D too. However, for this series that just means they are the most expensive. I would wager that a quick search of some top national dealers would quickly be able to find several examples in all grades. However, I think that the 37S is by far tougher to find in mint state than its mintage suggests and IMHO it should be lifted above or on at least equal tiers with the previously mentioned quarters.
How many “key dates” can a series legitimately have? And upon what basis should that be determined?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I second the mention of the ‘32-D and S quarters. They were certainly key dates during my childhood some 50+ years ago. While mint examples are still “key” in my mind, The collector grade coins have done nothing but drop and don’t really impress at all anymore.
I surveyed bust, seated and Barber coinage in the 1970's. What I found most interesting was a direct comparison of the key date 1901-s Barber quarter against all seated quarters. From my estimates, 85% of the dates/mm's in the seated quarters are scarcer than the 1901-s. From that view, 85% of seated quarters are 'key' dates. But, I reduced it to about 2 dozen coins of "high particular interest" with relatively small retail price guide values (ie key dates priced right)......while eliminating half a dozen or more expensive coins that were over-priced.
In my post, I did mention that I was only going to do the analysis of UNC...when I revisit this, when I have time, I hope to take a look at the circulated grades as well. To make a bit of a correction to your statement though..."are still "key" due to the cost..." I don't see that as accurate. Cost is the wrong word, while demand is the more appropriate word. It is the demand that drives the cost. That demand is incorrectly placed because it is all based on the knowledge that people gain by reading the mintage figures in the Red Book as a child. If we were blind to the mintage figures then REALITY/TRUE SCARCITY would be king and dictate the price. We would live in a very different world if reality was the driver. Just because of my little project do I somehow believe that every US Coin collector will be re-educated? Lol, no! I do hope to expand on my original work soon, while addressing your concern of the circulated examples. You bring up a great point and it is quite possible that my data will be more useful to collectors.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
The 1804 dollar, 1913 nickel and 1933 Saint are certainly "date(s) of a coin series that is harder to obtain than other dates in the series."
To me, the main difference in these vs. others are (a) coins are not obtainable to many collectors (b) they weren't issued as regular coins.
Due to the circumstances of their manufacture, I don’t think the 1804 and the 1913 are generally considered to be part of a series. Others might disagree.
And the 1933 Saint isn’t collectible, so I’m not convinced that it qualifies, either. Said another way, perhaps a “key date” needs to be collectible in order to qualify as such.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed. I think this comes down to how you define a series. I tend to include them in the series but others may not.
After the fact, I added the 1933 Eagle. That one is a bit more collectible
I'm still trying to figure out why mercury dimes are called mercury dimes… The image on that dimes obverse is NOT mercury...
In reference to some viewpoints stated here. So if all the 1913 Liberty Nickels or 1894-S dimes became available all at the same time they would no longer be keys? This due to their availability? And as soon as they were all bought up they would be keys again due to their unavailability?
This is just my personal opinion, but I wouldn’t count them as “key dates”, whether available or not. They weren’t regular issue coins and aren’t generally collected as part of their respective series.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I looked it up and the answer was that the depiction of Liberty was confused with the Roman god Mercury.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I guess I'm trying to understand the viewpoint of availability=Non key and the non-availability=key viewpoint. When I was young the keys to me were the ones I could not afford:16-D Dime,09-S VDB Cent etc.
Because the god Mercury also wore a winged hat (and sandals). The wing on Liberty's cap on the dime is actually supposed to symbolize freedom of thought.
I don't think I saw the 1885 Liberty nickel mentioned.
I know that many here don't give a hoot, but how about the 1872&1873 2 Cent Pieces?
One was minted for circulation and the other just for collectors.
Looking at some of the mintages of the coins in the OP I would say that no one really cares about 2 Cent Pieces except me.
Just 1 minted for circulation sounds strange. Why only 1 in a production run?
Some of the major doubled dies in the series ARE truly rare, much more so that any regular issue date/Mint. Most occurred on very common dates and many were indiscriminately melted during the various silver crazes, enhancing their rarity further. I know most don't include them in the series but if you're looking for rarity these would be the ones to go after.
I would have to agree. One could list more than a few Washington quarter die varieties that haven't been available for sale anywhere, in any grade, in at least a year or more. Those are the real keys to the series.
While looking at eBay listings I discovered almost every coin is a key date🙂
When I was a dealer (a decade ago), it seemed to me that these key date coins got way too much attention. Some collectors, or you might call them investors or speculators, would not buy anything but key dates. Everything else was just “stuff.” This resulted in the prices for the key dates going way too high in my opinion.
I remember at the beginning of a Winter FUN show that a dealer across the aisle from me had two 1901-S quarters. Both were raw. One was in AG-3 at best and the other one was a Fair-2. In my view, they were hole fillers. He wanted over $6,000 apiece for these coins, which I thought was just nuts. With the huge emphasis on quality at the time, I could not see how such items could be worth that kind of money.