11 quick tips for Liberty Seated Dollar collectors
Crusty
Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
These are some tips I think would be helpful to people that are contemplating starting a Liberty Seated dollar set. They are not in any particular order and can all be equally important. One thing that goes without saying (even though I’m about to say it) Join the LSCC. It is an incredible value and has been beneficial to me along the way. Hope this can help some newer collectors avoid some hard lessons and painful tuition...
1- Buy coins with original surfaces
Most people start off buying the cheapest example they can find for each hole in the set. After assembling a handful of these examples you should be able to notice that while they may be straight graded they certainly are not problem free. Instead they were deemed market acceptable. If the cheapest market acceptable coins are what floats your boat then more power to you. But make sure you do not pay a premium for them because you will have a tough time recovering any premium paid. For me it is much more rewarding to pay more to find a problem free example that is original and PQ. It may sound easy enough to those who are new to collecting Seated dollars. But I can assure you that after years of building this set. It is tougher then you could ever imagine trying to locate PQ examples. I have spent countless hours searching for these rare treasures and with the help of a few great friends and dealers I have managed a humble 41 of the 43(minus the 1870s) I originally laid out as my goal. There is no way to get a precise number of surviving examples with original surfaces but I lean heavily on the CAC population to get a rough idea of the number of original coins for each date. Another way to get an idea of how tough it is to find a nice original Seated dollar is to do a quick simple search on EBay. I would guess nearly 90% of the dollars on eBay have been dipped, cleaned, damaged or abused at some point in the past. That includes both raw and certified examples. If you are lucky enough to finally find a date you need that is strictly original and PQ..... BUY IT!!!
2-Learn to grade the series before you buy
There is an endless amount to knowledge to learn about LSDs. It is fairly easy to find out the basics such as how many coins are in a full date and mint mark set, which year was a proof issue only, and which coins are considered to be a key date. So I won’t bore you with those basic details. Learning to grade is an important part of becoming an expert in the series. You can not rely solely on what the plastic says. There are many dates that suffer from poor strikes and learning how to grade them yourself is essential. I would also strongly suggest getting a grasp of the survival estimates and how rare each particular date is taking into account originality. There are many dates that are considered "common" (if there is such a thing in this series) but I’d bet some of these "common" dates will take years to find a fully original PQ specimen. Once you’ve mastered this you’ll be able to make a quick decision if you come across a date on your want list.
3-Buy LSDs that are slabbed
The market is flooded with counterfeit dollars from China. The best way to avoid buying a counterfeit is to purchase Dollars that have already been authenticated by the top 2 grading services. Another benefit when buying certified coins is they are protected from future potential damage. These coins have managed to survive 150 years worth of wars,silver melting,natural disasters,Great Depression,the list goes on and on.The least we can do as owners is protect this large heavy silver coin from a rim bump from an accidental fall. Lastly you’ll have a much easier time finding a buyer for a slabbed Seated dollar when it comes time to sell. Yes we have all heard buy the coin not the holder however when it comes time to sell there is definitely a hierarchy and PCGS CAC approved coins are king followed by NCG CAC approved examples. Then comes a pcgs non CAC coin followed by NGC non CAC. I have bought and sold all of the above and this has been my experience.
4- Send your coins to CAC for approval
Whether you love them or hate them CAC has proven itself in this market. There is absolutely no reason not to send your Seated dollars to CAC. The demand for CAC approved coins is undeniable and is proven through the higher prices realized at auctions time and time again. I can’t think of any other series that this is more profound. Seated dollars can sell for multiples of price guides listed value and in my opinion they are worth every single penny and in many cases more. Failure to send your coins to CAC simply leaves money on the table when selling choice PQ dollars. Luckily your a collector member of CAC it means you only pay for coins that actually sticker. A fair deal if you ask me.... Wether you divest your Seated dollar set yourself or you leave to your heirs. CAC will ensure the most money possible at the time of sale. Another benefit to handling CAC coins is you can learn a lot about grading and identifying coins with problems. JA is very tough on Seated dollars and his eye has taught me a lot.
5- Ensure your not buying a misidentified proof
Once you’ve narrowed down the field to just strictly original pieces you’ll be faced with an additional challenge. While building a set of business strike Dollars you will inevitably come across a circulated proof that is identified as a business strike. Research on this topic was almost non existent until Dick Osburn and Brian Cushing put in the time and effort required to study the dies and published their book "Liberty Seated Dollars" . This is a must own for those building a set. This is the only way to identify your coins OC variety. Some years seem to be plagued by this more than others... Hint 1862.
6- Take time to choose a grade range that is manageable on your budget
When I started collecting Seated liberty dollars I chose XF45 as my target grade. I felt it was manageable and offered the best bang for my buck details wise. I still believe this to be true but realized quickly that an all XF45 set of choice original dollars is almost impossible. The closest I’ve seen is the Old Chelsea collection (which can be viewed through the pcgs registry). This set was actually the catalyst for the start of my own Seated dollar set. I can tell you what he has managed to do I absolutely amazing and probably can not be duplicated ever again. And any attempt to duplicate would have to involve many years and bottomless wallet. My set is falling short of my initial goal and now spans a wider grade range. I’ve found that the grade of the coin is less important then the originality of the coin. So don’t get hung up on a single grade. I suggest you open your range up a bit to allow yourself a chance to actually complete this challenging series. I’d suggest keeping the grade range as close as possible to avoid a coin looking to out of place.
7- Meeting fellow collectors is a must
I’ll let you in on a well known secret... Most choice LSDs never appear on the open market. They sell amongst fellow collectors. I have met a lot of people since I started my set and a few of them have become some of my best friends not just coin buddies but beyond coins. We buy sell and trade amongst each other and constantly look out for each other’s want lists. I simply wouldn’t have the set I have today without them. This hobby is so much more rewarding when you have friends who are like minded and who are looking out for each other. If possible try to have multiple people to bounce things off of. This can help a newer collector identify coins that have problems that may be beyond his knowledge when starting a new collection. Without fellow collectors your at a disadvantage.
8- Choose a mentor wisely
When attempting to put together an original set of business strikes I highly advise you to gain a mentor who has knowledge of the series and who genuinely has your best interest at heart. Just because a person has knowledge of LSDs doesn’t make them a mentor. One must take the time to properly vet this individual... Ask around you’d be surprised how small this seated dollar world is. Any seated dollar specialist will inevitably have a reputation. In this business reputation is everything. Some guys have a reputation of being solid as an oak while others will do or say anything to make a buck. Ask the dealers off the record about a potential candidate and there answer should give you a decent feel for the situation. In this hobby your word is everything. There are guys I’ve never met in person but have done 5 figure coin deals with on nothing more then a phone conversation. Literally sending coins before payment and vise versa. That is the level of trust I have built with certain LSCC members. Sadly this is not the case for everyone and this must be learned through experience and word of mouth. Everyone has there own level of trust they are willing to extend but no matter the level you feel comfortable with a good mentor is necessary.
9- The time to buy is when you see her
Once you have found a choice PQ original example of a date you need and you feel comfortable with the price... it is time to buy. Even the slightest hesitation can turn into you waiting a decade or more before another premium example presents herself in your desired grade range. I have a want list open with several well respected high integrity dealers and have gotten some incredible coins that way. When they call... You should be able to make a pass or play decision fairly quickly. That is the least you can do to show the dealer you appreciate having a shot at his material. That being said I’d suggest only purchasing coins that are good enough to have in your set forever. This takes a tremendous amount of patience and will power which I myself have fallen short of many times. Upgrading constantly can is an unnecessary cost in an already expensive series to collect. So try to avoid when possible.
10- Stay focused
Attempting this set will test you in many ways. For one you’ll have to find these rare gems. Once you’ve found them you’ll have to have the financial means to complete the purchase. Once you’ve gotten through half the set you’ll find the coins you need are all extremely scarce and months or years can go by without finding a coin that is needed towards your set. This down time can cause a collector to loose focus and spend his money elsewhere sometimes moving on to other series or worse another hobby. I would suggest trying to resist the urge although I am actually guilty of this and have admittedly started a Trade dollar collection to fill in the time in between Seated dollar purchases. I justify this to myself by because in a seconds notice I am willing to sell off my trade dollar set in order to purchase the right seated dollar.
11- Take a few coins around to shows
Once you have a small group of Seated dollars in your possession take a few representatives to a coin show and show them around. You may be surprised at some of the feedback. Ask them what they believe your coins are worth . This will give you a rough idea of how well you did with your purchases. Speaking to dealers that are knowledgeable on the series can be a great educational experience. Once you develop a relationship with these dealers they will keep in touch as they find nice examples. They can also look at coins in auctions for you and provide some great feedback on there in hand opinion. A relationship with a good group of dealers is important and needs to be maintained to get a crack at the fresh material.
Comments
Thank you!
Good advice. And this can apply to many other US coin series as well....Bust, Barber, etc.
Osborn-Cushing die variety reference (for business strike vs. proof, etc.):
http://www.seateddollarvarieties.com/
Liberty Seated Collectors Club:
http://www.lsccweb.org/
Free education
Thanks Brishen!!!
Good post. Most suggestions would work on whatever you collect
After reading this, I’m glad I’m a small time type collector. I would struggle at the self imposed restrictions that would undermine my enjoyment of my hobby. I understand and respect what the OP is saying, but to follow his path in this series would be frustrating for a new collector.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
great list, Crusty !!!
Very good advice, and many of the points match my experience with collecting Barber halves decades ago,
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Threads like this one are what make this place great.
Pete
Excellent advice!
Set collecting is definitely not for everyone. Especially in a era where instant gratification is the norm. I suspect I am different from most others in my age range (37) I don’t know that I could ever do a type set... I like the feeling of completion. Probably OCD but I have a need to fill the holes. I posted these tips because I wish it was laid out like that for me before I started.
Number 9 is the “hidden gem” in your advise.
I always tell my clients to “buy the last coin first” as, like you say, upgrading usually costs you more money.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
11 is important. It gives you "instant cred" w/important dealers who can help you. They see good coins, they know you are serious and not just tire kicking.
Excellent post....Great advice for new collectors, as well as others contemplating a series of any type. Cheers, RickO
The '11 Rules' apply equally to Capped Bust halves ... just the details for the series are different.
And yeah ... #9 is a hidden gem.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
1 should be PATIENCE... As gosh if I started a LSD set in AU 15 years ago I might be at 4 coins by now.