Shipping and insurance
alexerca
Posts: 272 ✭✭✭
I am going to start selling some double eagles I have and want to know what is the best way to ship and insure and approximately how much it would cost on a $2000 coin. I am going to attempt at selling 15 of them in the next 3 weeks. Haven't sold any rare coins since the old days of ebay!
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Comments
You're going to have to go registered. $25 per coin.
Just my two cents, but:
Depending on what they are, usually better to wholesale them. The bid/ask spread isn't that big: $50-$75. Selling them individually increases your risk while not increasing your take very much.
To add on to this, if you're already paying for Registered Mail, upping the insurance in $2000 increments doesn't result in a very large increase to the postage cost. Since that $25 mailing fee (or whatever it ends up being--a few dollars more or less for a given package won't change this thought) will be paid by you by virtue of a buyer considering the total price+shipping per coin, the wholesale vs. retail spread may become smaller if you can nearly wipe away that $25 per coin shipping fee by sending everything in one package to one dealer (or selling locally and not shipping at all).
Certainly see what the wholesale prices you can get are, and decide how much your time is worth when it comes to selling the coins individually, but the wholesale idea here may well be wise given the coins are much more commodities than other collector coins that have far less of their value tied to their metal content.
$2000 insured is best sent registered mail and will cost $20-$25. It is the only class of US mail that will cover an insurance claim on bullion and is actually cheaper than shipping regular insured priority. The savings advantage with insured registered mail begins at about a $750 contents value.
Your registered shipping cost per coin goes down drastically when your shipment includes more than one coin. Also, when shipping something registered that is less than 13 oz. be sure to specify "registered first class" and not "registered priority." This will save you a few bucks and will not cause any further delay in the shipment. Both classes of registered travel at the same slow pace. In the case of registered mail, priority is strictly based on weight and not on speed. If shipping a lot of weight via registered (i.e. 100 oz. of silver) one can take advantage of using flat rate priority boxes/envelopes and their associated lower fees.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I've sold a bunch of gold on another platform, on the order of 200k in calendar year 2019, and everything went first class or priority mail, no signature. Shipments were typically 1 ounce minimum. I gave every buyer the option to pay extra for shipping to have registered, not a single buyer chose it, instead choosing to allow the risk of USPS losing the package. I packaged well and used a ton of tape and not a single package was lost.
I don't think insurance at about 1% the value of the item is worth it unless you think you have a greater than 1% chance of your package not getting there.
Even when I sold to big guys like JM Bullion and a lost package would be my loss, I did not choose insurance either.
Just my two cents. I would say to package well and use a lot of tape, I put my money where my mouth is. But I don't want you to blame me if you have bad luck with the post office.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Just to be clear, there is no risk to the buyer if the package is lost because they'll be due a refund in that event.
If I were going to ship a $2k coin uninsured, it would most likely be USPS Express Flat Rate envelope. The less time in the hands of USPS, the safer I feel. FWIW.
@CoinJunkie said:
If I were going to ship a $2k coin uninsured, it would most likely be USPS Express Flat Rate envelope. The less time in the hands of USPS, the safer I feel. FWIW.
I totally agree with that logic.
Are you sure it's not possible for a buyer to agree to assume the risk of loss in shipment in the terms of a deal?
edited to add... this applies to CoinPhysicist's comment regarding sales on a platform other than eBay.
Anything can be negotiated obviously. But just asking a buyer if they wish to pay extra for Registered mail doesn't sound like a contract absolving the seller of liability to me.
Actually not true sir. I was paid with Paypal Friends and Family or equivalent. If the package was lost, I had the money and the buyers knew that. Not a single buyer wanted to pay extra for registered mail. I generally agree, less time in the hands of the shipper, the better.
I was not selling on eBay. Selling gold (especially raw) on eBay is asking for trouble.
In the end, there was not a single issue.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Fair enough. I was going with the idea that this was made clear to the buyer beforehand- kind of how it used to work on eBay.
On the platform where I sell, this is made clear to the buyer. And even made clear, not a single buyer chose to pay extra for registered. And in the end there was not a single lost package. Just my experience. Anyways, cheers.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
If the money cannot be clawed back and the buyer has agreed to accept liability for loss, then I retract my above statement. However, many buyers will refuse to purchase a $2k coin with a cash equivalent, especially from an unknown private seller.
You forget that insurance protects the seller not the buyer. Without on-line proof that item was delivered ebay and paypal will force the seller to eat the loss.
Even if the sale is on a non-ebay platform, payments made with paypal invoke paypal's buyer protection. Paypal will refund the buyer, using seller's money, if there is not proof of delivery. In such a case the seller needs the protection of shipping insurance. . . the buyer does not, he has "paypal insurance."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
This "self insured" is another option. It does involve some risk.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I wouldn't do that with a small number of high-value items. At that level, the insurance cost isn't particularly significant, but the exposure in the event of loss is high.
The few times I have shipped gold coins (Britannia sets), I shipped Registered and insured. All went well. Cheers, RickO
In the old days of eBay, the vig was 5% and capped at some per-lot maximum. Now, its unlimited 13%, when you include PayPal. If the $20s you're selling are essentially bullion, you'll get below melt, and if gold goes down over the next 14 days, some of your buyers will return them and you'll have to eat the 3% PayPal fee. 15 coins at $1800 each is $3510 in eBay fees, roughly the equivalent of losing two uninsured coins in the mail.
Regarding the shipping, I'd use registered mail, as mentioned earlier.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
For me, a $2000 coin would be shipped in a small flat priority box with signature confirmation.
This packaging will not say "steal me".
Paypal has your back.
I self insure as every insurance guy I know is rich.
Shipping
use a rather large, heavily taped box with all the weight centered and surrounded tightly so nothing moves when shaken. small packages can vanish easily.
As a seller Paypal (nor ebay) does not have your back unless the item reaches its destination and you have proof that it did so. For shipping insurance matters you are own your own and if your buyer paid with paypal you are totally on your own. Paypal and ebay share the approach that "item belongs to seller until there is proof of delivery."
My response to an ebay seller who asks if I'd like to purchase optional shipping insurance: "No thanks, don't need it, but you just might."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
For sure, that is why I self insure.
I have NEVER, NEVER had a priority package get lost, NEVER!!!!!
Yes, Paypal has your back as long as it is delivered.
You can ship it registered insured for half the cost. Cheaper and safer. There is accountability (signature) of every usps employee that handles a registered shipment. Easy to find the thief and the employees know this. They are much more likely to steal your Express envelope.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
If I shipped it registered insured, I wouldn't be shipping it uninsured, now would I? Clearly registered mail is more secure than Express, but sometimes one party or the other doesn't want to wait a week or two for delivery. Also FYI, people on this forum have recently posted that the PO has lost their registered parcels, so nothing is bulletproof.
PayPal doesn't always have your back if you ship insured with a signature required. The buyer can simply claim you swapped coins on them or shipped a deck of $2 playing cards instead. You need better proof if you want to beat the scammers at their own game. Who do you think PayPal will side with if the buyer says they signed for a worthless package? Can you say.....claw back?
Selling double eagles? With on line premiums and shipping costs, just sell them at your next regional or larger coin show. Another option is to package them all up and sent to a major US Gold Wholesaler like Heritage or Rarcoa who buy slabbed gold sight unseen, typically within 5% of their actual sell prices. Most buyers can't compete. And you could save on shipping costs with one package. You might even work up a deal where you ship on the buyer's FedEx account for a much smaller amount. I've never understood why anyone would sell generic slabbed gold on line or at auction when premiums tend to be pretty tight (2-8%) with the major US Dealers.
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I have been on paypal for 20 years. Who do you think they will believe?
Paypal has covered me for thousands of dollars of fraud committed against me. Paypal has never ruled against me.
Paypal is awesome.
I doubt he was speaking just to you.
Not everyone has been on PayPal for 20 years.
PayPal has ruled against other sellers.
PayPal isn't awesome for everyone.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I world ship priority mail with insurance. Register mail is too slow and is not cheaper much than priority with insurance.
As a seller of double eagles, We have only shipped registered. It costs around $25-$27/coin. We have shipped hundreds and never had one lost (close 1 time). It's a losing trade to pay 1% (included in registered price) for insurance but we buy peace of mind.
We did have one claim for a coin I believed to be lost based on the tracking. We received a check within a week. We contacted the buyer as an afterthought and discovered that he "failed to tell us he received the coin". Obviously we sent the check back as soon as I found out the coin was received.
I've had buyers complain about the time it takes to receive a registered package. I simply say, "please pass on the coin".
Priority mail + insurance? We always worry that the buyer will say, "I never received the package". Who signed? I want the buyer to sign.
Dealers buying coins? To date, it's been awhile since we have been lucky enough to receive an offer for commodity coins better than we could receive on E-Bay (net - with a store). More effort selling? Sure so everyone needs to decide how much is convenience worth?
We have not opened the store for months. I'm starting to miss the activity. I suspect we'll open in June before we forget where the coins are. I'm already beginning to forget what they look like.
I just shipped a package Saturday morning from East Tn. to Pcgs, Priority Flat rate box with insurance. It got there at 8:00am this morning. It cost me $51 for the box plus $2500 insurance, but it got there in 2 days.
I've had PayPal side with me, but the credit card they used through PayPal sided with the buyer. The buyer claimed they never received an item that they signed for at their home address. So PayPal ruled in my favor, but I still lost.
Wait, so even though you had PP seller protection and PayPal ruled in your favor, they made you eat the credit card refund? Seems like PP should have covered that and written it off. I'm asking because I've never been in that circumstance and am curious how it works.
I don't recall for certain as it was about 6 years ago, but I believe it was a non-PayPal verified address. So it wouldn't qualify for seller protection. Of note, this was a normal e-commerce sale a not an eBay item. Only shipping to PayPal verified addresses is not really realistic in e-commerce, in my opinion.
OK, thanks for the additional insight. It's pretty simple for me: no seller protection, no shipment. I make exceptions for known trustworthy buyers, but that usually involves a PP Friends payment and thus there's no seller protection in the first place.
Paypal will fight a CC chargeback on your behalf but if the CC rules in favor of your buyer paypal will refund the money from your PP account to the buyer. PP does not want to get on the bad side of the CC companies as most paypal purchases involve using a CC.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left