1986 Fleer Basketball Sequence

cabowabo1963 · May 20, 2020 12:50PM

I've been reading other discussions about this subject. I purchased 2 packs recently and was able to identify Gerald Wilkins on top. The pack has been not tampered with. What cards are next? I'm thinking of ripping! Thanks

I'm not sure if I said the Gerald Wilkins on top. The card is upside down. I wonder if that is the sequence change

hamilton989 · May 20, 2020 12:56PM

I think you may have missed 57 by one. I think the next card after him is typically mj

hamilton989 · May 20, 2020 12:59PM

I think dominque and magic though

jordangretzkyfan · May 20, 2020 2:37PM

@hamilton989 said:
I think you may have missed 57 by one. I think the next card after him is typically mj

Think the card below Gerald will be Vinnie Johnson. Dominique and Magic will be in there though if the pack has not been tampered.

secretstash · May 20, 2020 4:22PM

What stickers are you looking at on the backs?

Sequencing can flip mid-pack, so you could still end up flipping towards a Jordan, fwiw. It is like a 15% chance of a flip from what I've found.

ReedDACW · May 20, 2020 9:48PM

@secretstash said:
What stickers are you looking at on the backs?

Sequencing can flip mid-pack, so you could still end up flipping towards a Jordan, fwiw. It is like a 15% chance of a flip from what I've found.

I've discussed this with Steve over the years, and we're almost certain the sequencing does not flip randomly, but at specific points in the collation. We we're lucky enough to watch a box being opened about 4-5 years ago, and I took notes of every pack being opened in the box, card for card, and even though one box is a small sample size, I think our theory is true.

ArtVandelay · May 21, 2020 3:04AM

Unless they are in a PSA slab or come from BBCE then there is a great chance those packs were resealed. I'm fairly certain none of the cards will be in sequence.

secretstash · May 21, 2020 3:11AM

@ReedDACW said:

@secretstash said:
What stickers are you looking at on the backs?

Sequencing can flip mid-pack, so you could still end up flipping towards a Jordan, fwiw. It is like a 15% chance of a flip from what I've found.

I've discussed this with Steve over the years, and we're almost certain the sequencing does not flip randomly, but at specific points in the collation. We we're lucky enough to watch a box being opened about 4-5 years ago, and I took notes of every pack being opened in the box, card for card, and even though one box is a small sample size, I think our theory is true.

What is the weirdest goof from the factory that you have ever seen in 86 fleer? I saw a PSA graded pack have a sticker mid-pack on youtube I can find if that would be something you'd like to see. I believe it was a Larry Bird sticker in the middle of the pack. It was a PSA 8 graded pack if I recall correctly. I don't believe it was resealed or anything.

cabowabo1963 · May 21, 2020 4:06AM

The Sticker is Wilkins on back

cabowabo1963 · May 21, 2020 4:10AM

The other pack has Ralph Sampson on top.

ReedDACW · May 21, 2020 4:28AM

@secretstash said:

@ReedDACW said:

@secretstash said:
What stickers are you looking at on the backs?

Sequencing can flip mid-pack, so you could still end up flipping towards a Jordan, fwiw. It is like a 15% chance of a flip from what I've found.

I've discussed this with Steve over the years, and we're almost certain the sequencing does not flip randomly, but at specific points in the collation. We we're lucky enough to watch a box being opened about 4-5 years ago, and I took notes of every pack being opened in the box, card for card, and even though one box is a small sample size, I think our theory is true.

What is the weirdest goof from the factory that you have ever seen in 86 fleer? I saw a PSA graded pack have a sticker mid-pack on youtube I can find if that would be something you'd like to see. I believe it was a Larry Bird sticker in the middle of the pack. It was a PSA 8 graded pack if I recall correctly. I don't believe it was resealed or anything.

I was just talking to Steve about this the other day. Not sure I want to share just yet, but I do have proof, which for me is rare at times. LOL I should probably go and find the proof first if I wanted to explain it.

cabowabo1963 · May 22, 2020 4:14AM

I'm not sure if I said the Gerald Wilkins on top. The card is upside down. I wonder if that is the sequence change

secretstash · May 22, 2020 10:01AM

@ReedDACW said:

@secretstash said:

@ReedDACW said:

@secretstash said:
What stickers are you looking at on the backs?

Sequencing can flip mid-pack, so you could still end up flipping towards a Jordan, fwiw. It is like a 15% chance of a flip from what I've found.

I've discussed this with Steve over the years, and we're almost certain the sequencing does not flip randomly, but at specific points in the collation. We we're lucky enough to watch a box being opened about 4-5 years ago, and I took notes of every pack being opened in the box, card for card, and even though one box is a small sample size, I think our theory is true.

What is the weirdest goof from the factory that you have ever seen in 86 fleer? I saw a PSA graded pack have a sticker mid-pack on youtube I can find if that would be something you'd like to see. I believe it was a Larry Bird sticker in the middle of the pack. It was a PSA 8 graded pack if I recall correctly. I don't believe it was resealed or anything.

I was just talking to Steve about this the other day. Not sure I want to share just yet, but I do have proof, which for me is rare at times. LOL I should probably go and find the proof first if I wanted to explain it.

secretstash · May 22, 2020 10:04AM

@cabowabo1963 said:
The other pack has Ralph Sampson on top.

Erving and Drexler would likely be inside of this one.

cabowabo1963 · June 3, 2020 6:25AM

If the top card is upside down(name on top of pack) signify the flip?

ldferg · June 3, 2020 3:51PM

Only one true way to find out.... RIP it. video it.

rtimmer · June 4, 2020 2:50PM

@cabowabo1963 said:
If the top card is upside down(name on top of pack) signify the flip?

That’s a different definition of flip. More likely that the pack is not real then has a flip sequence in it. But I agree rip it and let’s find out for sure

dontippet · June 4, 2020 9:41PM

Why would someone place a card upside down and then reseal it? I know nothing about 86 Fleer packs, but I would think an upside down card may show a sign that it is original.

secretstash · June 5, 2020 2:48AM

@rtimmer said:

@cabowabo1963 said:
If the top card is upside down(name on top of pack) signify the flip?

That’s a different definition of flip. More likely that the pack is not real then has a flip sequence in it. But I agree rip it and let’s find out for sure

This is not true. The card placement compared to the sticker on the back is irrelevant as the sticker was added separately to the base card sequencing and has no attachment to the cards inside. I believe no one has ever found a sticker to determine a card order, but BBCE Steve or Reed can confirm this for certain.

jordangretzkyfan · June 5, 2020 3:55AM

@cabowabo1963 said:
If the top card is upside down(name on top of pack) signify the flip?

No. About half the box has the name of the player at the bottom in the blue part of the wrapper and the other half has the name at the top part of the wrapper in the red section. This is standard and does not signify any flip.

rtimmer · June 5, 2020 6:18AM

@secretstash said:

@rtimmer said:

@cabowabo1963 said:
If the top card is upside down(name on top of pack) signify the flip?

That’s a different definition of flip. More likely that the pack is not real then has a flip sequence in it. But I agree rip it and let’s find out for sure

This is not true. The card placement compared to the sticker on the back is irrelevant as the sticker was added separately to the base card sequencing and has no attachment to the cards inside. I believe no one has ever found a sticker to determine a card order, but BBCE Steve or Reed can confirm this for certain.

No, it is true but you’re not addressing the question I was answering. @cabowabo asked if the top card (Jerald Wilkins) being upside down signified the card sequence in the pack would flip. His question and my answer has nothing to do with the sticker on the back as I‘ve often said the sticker is irrelevant to the card sequence or it flipping mid pack.

BLACKTARA · January 13, 2025 4:13PM

I have two questions for the experts from someone who is new back to the hobby but remembers buying and selling and opening packs and boxes of 1986 87 and 88 basketball product from like 1990 to 1993 (86 boxes were anywehre from around $500-$1000 at the start of that period to $5500-6500 at the end of it) First question Anecdotally I remember Jordan card and Jordan sticker coming from the same pack more than might be expected (it seemed like one out of every four Jordans came with a Jordan sticker while completely random would mean one in 11)- of course maybe this is purely bias because that always meant a heck of a pack, but my question is is the sticker totally independent of the other cards in the pack or can particular stickers be associated to some degree with at least some cards or blocks of cards?

BLACKTARA · January 13, 2025 4:19PM

My second question -- we know the distribution and collation in unaltered unopened material is good locally - meaning 3.27 of any card per box - but because of the offsets between production and packing (11 per row, 12 per pack, 33 packs equals 3 sets worth of cards but theres 36 packs in a box --- between that inherent offset and also the lack of quality control inherent in those days, is a 2 Jordan or 5 Jordan box possible - like is there some pattern where in fact it works out that one of every x number of cases legitmitely has a box with only, 2 or as many as 5 Jordans . I mightve opened a half case worth of 88's all together at some point (the same basic collation principles apply), and maybe up to 8 or 12 86 packs at a time, but is there anyone out there who broke this product in case quantities that paid attention and noticed any of this?

BLACKTARA · January 13, 2025 4:25PM

Lastly, someone asked about what oddities can you attest to from personally opening packs - I can attest to a pack from a legit box with 11 base cards and doubled sticker (dont remember which sticker, but not Jordan) -- do NOT remember what the base cards were and whether there was a right edge flip card in the pack in question

1986 Fleer Basketball Sequence

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