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Help on a authenticity of a 1909-S VDB
Kliao
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Got this ‘09-S VDB in a lot of stuff I gotta process. I’m really questioning its authenticity because of how high grade it is with out being in a holder.
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Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
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I don't know for sure but if that coin turns out to be the real deal, you have got yourself one heck of a collectors dream!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.How bout a close up of the date area & the VDB
Updated. I’ll try to get better shots of the VDB
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Serifs do not lineup correctly on the mintmark. No expert, but I do not like the mintmark.
On the reverse, the U in UNITED and the VDB (from what you can see) look wrong. I believe there are only 4 mms locations, so you may want to check to see if they match.
It appears to be a fake IMO
Looks like it might be a position 2.
Not sure what to think of the VDB.
The coin, itself, looks genuine. I believe it's a matter of whether the S has been added. And from what I can see, it doesn't look right.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The mintmark is dead-on for Position 2 of Counterfeit Detection, (Reprint From 'The Numismatist') Vol. II
Fabric of the coin looks real.
Drunner
Look for a small die gouge near the rim between the R & U of trust.
The coin has an added mintmark.
That style of 'S' is not on a genuine 1909-SVDB
Edited to add: The serifs on an 'S' on a genuine 1909-SVDB are parallel. The serifs on the coin in the OP are not parallel.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
What @astrorat said.
Soak in acetone and see if MM stays attached.
The MM looks wrong, the VDB is damaged (perhaps intentional to disguise), do you have a close up of the "B" in Liberty and the rim area above the "RU" of Trust. I'd say fake but the two areas I asked about will confirm.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The mintmark is wrong I'm in the added mintmark camp
HAPPY COLLECTING
I updated the OP.
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Thanks all for your input. Seems to sound like this is a added mintmark. Was to be expected to me. the S also stands out from the over devices on the coin while in-hand. Kinda hard to take a picture of that. Thanks all again and stay safe!
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Thanks, no die chips or gouge (not found on all genuine S-VDB's but some) and a wrong MM, case closed its a fake.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Ok Thanks
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
I don't have the expertise to weigh in on the coin's authenticity; that's why I read this post daily, and I'm thankful for those chiming in who know their stuff. Great pics by the way.
This!
Ostensibly, the piece is from die #1, high left. Tilt and style of 's' not right, however. Genuine from die #1 has 's' tilting even more downward.
I vote fake.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Genuine. And OP's. Serifs are the giveaway.
Lance.
Also, the dot between the D and the B does not appear centered as it should be on a genuine S-VDB. It appears to the left, as it is on the Philly VDB. A better photo would confirm this.
Lance.
One marker for a genuine 1909-S VDB is there is a die chip inside the upper loop of the S mintmark. This feature is clearly visible in the above pic of the real 1909-S VDB.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
One of the sleaze ball dealers here in town took one of these very similar to the motel buyer several years ago and sold one to them knowing it was fake. The motel buyers thinking they had a fish on the line offered 400 bucks for a choice unc coin.
The dealer guy left with 400 bucks in his pocket, and the motel buyers thinking they got a rip as normal. (probably found out later once they got it back and processed Im sure)
this was an example of two shiesters trying to screw each other on a deal. Motel buyers haven't been around in several years, and the dealer has now since passed away
The weirdo coloration around the date and "S" concerns me, id pass...
Serifs are the giveaway.
Lance
genuine
fake
Yep. Note too that the tilt of the 's' on the fake is off.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
RUN FOREST RUN!
It has an added mintmark, like all the above comments.
I've seen that style. My local coin shop has one that they present to customers every so often to educate them.
Pete
I thought the S was added right away, due to tilt and the 'stain' or discoloration just to the right.... also did not like the 'd . B' since the period did not look centered... though the obliteration almost disguised it. Cheers, RickO
It’s not my coin. I’m processing a lot of coins and getting them ready for sale for my boss. He bought a ton of coins In 1 lot at an auction.
Collector
Over 100 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 57 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Are "Altered" 1909's like this worth anything?
Are "Altered" 1909's like this worth anything?
Yes. As counterfeit teaching tool. The subject coin of this thread is most likely an altered plain, or Philadelphia mint issue,1909 V.D.B.
The V.D.B. is a mess, likely damaged deliberately by the counterfeiter to disguise that the period between 'D' and 'B' is not centered. An acetone bath would probably result in the 'S' falling off. Then you would have a genuine 1909 V.D.B. with post mint damage.
1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent is definitely among the top five most counterfeited coins in all of numismatics.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
What are the other four most counterfeited coin? I'd guess the 1914-D cent, 1955 DDO cent, 1916-D dime, 1932-D and S quarters, and the 1893-S Morgan dollar would be near the top of the list.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Sorry, have to post this.
I was reading today in Mark, and this thread reminded me of the verse.
Mk. 13:5, " and Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you"
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.1922 no D is often counterfeited.
Karma.
Add 1911-d $2.50
Looks can be deceiving... Great education here. Thanks for sharing some information on the svdb Lincoln.
You can add all Indian gold $2.5. This series is very heavily counterfeited.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire