as for the OP's piece, its just a nice toned 63, somewhat different, for price you paid surely its a keeper, but as you see from the comments nothing spectacular.
The big money for toners goes for examples at the minimum graded 65, usually at 66 and higher.
Typically with a plus (or a star)
Simple forumula:
Take the value of what the NON owner states and double it.
Take what the owner states it's worth and cut that number in half.
Now, take these two figures and average them.
@CoinJunkie said:
There are no formulas. I consigned this coin to Shane Canup several years ago and it fetched somewhat north of a grand, as I recall, which exceeded my expectations. The reverse is white.
Gotta ask, did you receive payment? Anyone know if Krypto got out of jail?
He was sentenced to 15 years in prison in 2018 so it's very likely he's still incarcerated. I bought a nice coin from him in 2015 and even with the juiced photo, I was pleased. I did ask him about the ebay photo before buying and he said "The Photo's represent the coin'. It was a pleasant transaction with Krytonitecomics before his downfall.
Here is an 84 CC I bought from Krypto raw in '13 or '14. Graded first shot thru PCGS at MS65. Sold later with a box of twenty at a Legend auction for 1200 IIRC. A forum member here purchased it.
While I really missed those twenty toned Morgans, I used the proceeds to help purchase a car I absolutely love to drive. Close as I will ever get to riding in a rocket ship. 6 spd manual with 707 hp
I own this coin now and I am very pleased to see where the proceeds went! That Hellcat is awesome!
@roadrunner said:
A crescent of toning on an otherwise so-so toned coin is in the B level category of toners. I don't think I'd call it a B+. A pretty common "toner." It's the A levels of toners that really fetch the big premiums. I'd agree with the 2-3X premium stated earlier. And yet I'm sure that are many who would say that's too stiff a premium....bringing over generic MS65 money.
A simple way to improve your Morgan "toner" pricing skills is to look through all the toned Morgans in 63 to 65 grade at GC. Go back as far as you have time. After viewing a hundred to several hundred coins you'll be a lot sharper than when you started.
I looked at over a thousand MS62-MS66 listed as toners on ebay before deciding on this one. I don't spend nearly as much time at GC because I prefer BIN. I did just check out GC and there are quite a
few nice toners up for auction. I even placed a bid! I'm well aware this is not a top of the line toner but
very much enjoy it for it's beauty. I rate it a B+ and on a good day, an A coin, lol.
Your coin is attractive and I don't want to say anything bad about it. Going back to your first post, can you show some examples of coins that sold for 10x retail and then give a clue as to what the premium was on this coin? I ask because your question is how does a premium get determined, and the information you've provided is incomplete. Truth is, a premium gets determined based on what a buyer is willing to pay (or in auction, what multiple bidders are willing to pay). Often, that amount can be used to determine exactly how nice the toning is. I remember when I first got some toned Morgans and thought they were A coins, and then I saw what real A coins could be. It doesn't mean I didn't like the coins I had anymore (many of the coins I saw were far beyond what I could/would pay), but it made me be realistic about what I had compared to what's available. Price point is a separate consideration. Getting a B coin for a C price can still be a good deal, but paying B money for a B coin doesn't make the coin an A.
Here's one that's destined to go for 40K++ at GC. It's a Wow coin!
That's certainly an expensive coin, but it being a wow coin depends. I'm no expert on that date, but I'm not a fan of the splotches. If I were buying it as a toner, I see room for improvement. For the combination of color and technical quality, it may well be near the pinnacle. Of course, it may also be a tough date for color, in which case if date matters, it could be great. I've focused more on color rather than date. As a result I have a lot of duplicates of some common dates for color, but the result is better color at a given price point. I'm sure that 84-CC is nice for what it is, but in all honesty, it doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Here are two example that come to mind. I like both coins but $10,000 for the Peace is beyond me!I
I paid around a $180 premium for mine and have no regrets and I don't get tired of looking at it! My
guess is that's about a 2.5X premium over FMV.
The 1879 MS63 Morgan sold for over $900 on a ebay auction. At the time, I thought the toning was suspect, I still wonder.
@roadrunner said:
A crescent of toning on an otherwise so-so toned coin is in the B level category of toners. I don't think I'd call it a B+. A pretty common "toner." It's the A levels of toners that really fetch the big premiums. I'd agree with the 2-3X premium stated earlier. And yet I'm sure that are many who would say that's too stiff a premium....bringing over generic MS65 money.
A simple way to improve your Morgan "toner" pricing skills is to look through all the toned Morgans in 63 to 65 grade at GC. Go back as far as you have time. After viewing a hundred to several hundred coins you'll be a lot sharper than when you started.
I looked at over a thousand MS62-MS66 listed as toners on ebay before deciding on this one. I don't spend nearly as much time at GC because I prefer BIN. I did just check out GC and there are quite a
few nice toners up for auction. I even placed a bid! I'm well aware this is not a top of the line toner but
very much enjoy it for it's beauty. I rate it a B+ and on a good day, an A coin, lol.
Your coin is attractive and I don't want to say anything bad about it. Going back to your first post, can you show some examples of coins that sold for 10x retail and then give a clue as to what the premium was on this coin? I ask because your question is how does a premium get determined, and the information you've provided is incomplete. Truth is, a premium gets determined based on what a buyer is willing to pay (or in auction, what multiple bidders are willing to pay). Often, that amount can be used to determine exactly how nice the toning is. I remember when I first got some toned Morgans and thought they were A coins, and then I saw what real A coins could be. It doesn't mean I didn't like the coins I had anymore (many of the coins I saw were far beyond what I could/would pay), but it made me be realistic about what I had compared to what's available. Price point is a separate consideration. Getting a B coin for a C price can still be a good deal, but paying B money for a B coin doesn't make the coin an A.
Here's one that's destined to go for 40K++ at GC. It's a Wow coin!
That's certainly an expensive coin, but it being a wow coin depends. I'm no expert on that date, but I'm not a fan of the splotches. If I were buying it as a toner, I see room for improvement. For the combination of color and technical quality, it may well be near the pinnacle. Of course, it may also be a tough date for color, in which case if date matters, it could be great. I've focused more on color rather than date. As a result I have a lot of duplicates of some common dates for color, but the result is better color at a given price point. I'm sure that 84-CC is nice for what it is, but in all honesty, it doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Here are two example that come to mind. I like both coins but $10,000 for the Peace is beyond me!I
I paid around a $180 premium for mine and have no regrets and I don't get tired of looking at it! My
guess is that's about a 2.5X premium over FMV.
The 1879 MS63 Morgan sold for over $900 on a ebay auction. At the time, I thought the toning was suspect, I still wonder.
@roadrunner said:
A crescent of toning on an otherwise so-so toned coin is in the B level category of toners. I don't think I'd call it a B+. A pretty common "toner." It's the A levels of toners that really fetch the big premiums. I'd agree with the 2-3X premium stated earlier. And yet I'm sure that are many who would say that's too stiff a premium....bringing over generic MS65 money.
A simple way to improve your Morgan "toner" pricing skills is to look through all the toned Morgans in 63 to 65 grade at GC. Go back as far as you have time. After viewing a hundred to several hundred coins you'll be a lot sharper than when you started.
I looked at over a thousand MS62-MS66 listed as toners on ebay before deciding on this one. I don't spend nearly as much time at GC because I prefer BIN. I did just check out GC and there are quite a
few nice toners up for auction. I even placed a bid! I'm well aware this is not a top of the line toner but
very much enjoy it for it's beauty. I rate it a B+ and on a good day, an A coin, lol.
Your coin is attractive and I don't want to say anything bad about it. Going back to your first post, can you show some examples of coins that sold for 10x retail and then give a clue as to what the premium was on this coin? I ask because your question is how does a premium get determined, and the information you've provided is incomplete. Truth is, a premium gets determined based on what a buyer is willing to pay (or in auction, what multiple bidders are willing to pay). Often, that amount can be used to determine exactly how nice the toning is. I remember when I first got some toned Morgans and thought they were A coins, and then I saw what real A coins could be. It doesn't mean I didn't like the coins I had anymore (many of the coins I saw were far beyond what I could/would pay), but it made me be realistic about what I had compared to what's available. Price point is a separate consideration. Getting a B coin for a C price can still be a good deal, but paying B money for a B coin doesn't make the coin an A.
Here's one that's destined to go for 40K++ at GC. It's a Wow coin!
That's certainly an expensive coin, but it being a wow coin depends. I'm no expert on that date, but I'm not a fan of the splotches. If I were buying it as a toner, I see room for improvement. For the combination of color and technical quality, it may well be near the pinnacle. Of course, it may also be a tough date for color, in which case if date matters, it could be great. I've focused more on color rather than date. As a result I have a lot of duplicates of some common dates for color, but the result is better color at a given price point. I'm sure that 84-CC is nice for what it is, but in all honesty, it doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Here are two example that come to mind. I like both coins but $10,000 for the Peace is beyond me!I
I paid around a $180 premium for mine and have no regrets and I don't get tired of looking at it! My
guess is that's about a 2.5X premium over FMV.
The 1879 MS63 Morgan sold for over $900 on a ebay auction. At the time, I thought the toning was suspect, I still wonder.
1- Peace dollars are extremely uncommon with any amount of toning, all the more so when also high grade. Their pricing is incomparable to Morgan dollars.
2- A 79-S Morgan, while not rare by any stretch, isn't as common with color as other dates. The color on that coin is far smoother and bolder than your coin, and the coin itself appears likely on the verge of prooflike. With the cheek as clean as it is, I'll bet someone also though the coin to be an upgrade candidate, even though a green CAC sticker (as opposed to gold) would at least indicate it's not likely to be above a 64 as far as they're concerned. Without seeing the coin in hand, I'll venture a guess that it's nicer in hand, though I'll also state that I think at $900 it's overpriced. I'd also like to see other photos and the listing itself.
From this, you've shown one irrelevant coin, and another that, until I saw many more like it, I'd consider to be an outlier.
I've seen that Peace dollar in person, it is very stunning. I think it's owned by a forum member here. The 79-S looks very nice too, looks like it could be a proof-like obverse. I think the toning is fine and NT for that coin.
@oldabeintx said:
I estimate the number of millihelens the coin rates, then divide by 10. The result is the percentage I apply over FMV for an untoned coin of a similar grade.
@oldabeintx said:
I estimate the number of millihelens the coin rates, then divide by 10. The result is the percentage I apply over FMV for an untoned coin of a similar grade.
Looking for "best answer" button.
Thank you. PS my max is 1,000 millihelens as Helen's beauty I assume was unsurpassed. Thus my max is 2X FMV.
(PPS I really don't collect toners per se, but if I did,,,,. )
I'm no expert, but for there to be any sort of premium for a toned coin it has to also meet other criteria. one thing that's important is that the tone has to eclipse any other negative aspects of the coin. this is a common date, a lower grade and, quite frankly, not a very attractive coin past the arc of color. further, the suggestion of 10x the NGC listed price of $75 for this coin is ludicrous.
my hunch for the NGC grade of MS63* is simple, it is an average MS63 and they "starred" it for the color.
Well, I did not say my coin is worth 10x anything and "Similarly Toned" can be a subjective assessment.
Everyone I've shown it to in person likes it and many Facebook coin group members love it, you know...
they click on the "Love" Icon. Some of the guys are real experts!!
I see toned Peace dollars all the time on ebay, been looking for a nice one for awhile. Most of the
toning I see is splotchy, dark and simply unattractive imo. On top of that, they are way overpriced.
I was bidding on the 1879 S but the auction bids went too high for my budget. The auction took place over a year ago and ebay drops listing after 3 months. Even if you copy and paste them to email,
you usually get the "I've looked Everywhere" with the hood over the kids eyes photo. A screenshot will
show the listing with a mediocre image. Year ago, I could pull up listings from well over 3 months ago
without any problem. Ebay must have a good reason for the change, lol.
I know if I posted a 100K coin that was as ugly as sin, it would get a lot of likes!!
I love toned coins, but I like my Peace Dollars blast white. RAW coin and probably QC, but considering the upside for toned Peace dollars, maybe I should submit it? Or dip it?
I love toned coins, but I like my Peace Dollars blast white. RAW coin and probably QC, but considering the upside for toned Peace dollars, maybe I should submit it? Or dip it?
@Commencents said:
1. I see toned Peace dollars all the time on ebay, been looking for a nice one for awhile. Most of the
toning I see is splotchy, dark and simply unattractive imo. On top of that, they are way overpriced.
Which should tell you something about toning on peace dollars
I love toned coins, but I like my Peace Dollars blast white. RAW coin and probably QC, but considering the upside for toned Peace dollars, maybe I should submit it? Or dip it?
looks like strong UNC, MS64? AT of course. About how much?
Bought this coin about 6-7 years ago. Don't have any record of the transaction anymore, but I would doubt that I paid more than $50.00 as I too thought at that time it was AT. Not the only code .91 coin that I have ever bought, but usually happens when I buy RAW IHC PR coins that look RD. Most all of the IHC toners that I buy RAW seem to straight grade.
Comments
only formulas I know are personnel, individualized for each potential buyer
mine involves what it does for eye appeal, where it is at and colors involved - more emerald green, more $
I would be comfortable in the 1.5 - 2x list range, but would not argue with anyone willing to go 4-5x
@bolivarshagnasty Love the color of that Hellcat!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Can someone explain the milkspots (on cheek) or what they are called? How it comes about and is that overall a blemish or not?
as for the OP's piece, its just a nice toned 63, somewhat different, for price you paid surely its a keeper, but as you see from the comments nothing spectacular.
The big money for toners goes for examples at the minimum graded 65, usually at 66 and higher.
Typically with a plus (or a star)
Simple forumula:
Take the value of what the NON owner states and double it.
Take what the owner states it's worth and cut that number in half.
Now, take these two figures and average them.
Those are characteristic of burlap bag toning. The spaces in the weave don't tone coin.
Interesting, I always thought those spots were from the taco bell sauce left on napkin.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
I own this coin now and I am very pleased to see where the proceeds went! That Hellcat is awesome!
Here are two example that come to mind. I like both coins but $10,000 for the Peace is beyond me!I
I paid around a $180 premium for mine and have no regrets and I don't get tired of looking at it! My
guess is that's about a 2.5X premium over FMV.
The 1879 MS63 Morgan sold for over $900 on a ebay auction. At the time, I thought the toning was suspect, I still wonder.
https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/24794714/-1-1923-pcgs-ms66-cac/?sort=2&ref=catalog
.......
The 79 S is gorgeous!
Two things:
1- Peace dollars are extremely uncommon with any amount of toning, all the more so when also high grade. Their pricing is incomparable to Morgan dollars.
2- A 79-S Morgan, while not rare by any stretch, isn't as common with color as other dates. The color on that coin is far smoother and bolder than your coin, and the coin itself appears likely on the verge of prooflike. With the cheek as clean as it is, I'll bet someone also though the coin to be an upgrade candidate, even though a green CAC sticker (as opposed to gold) would at least indicate it's not likely to be above a 64 as far as they're concerned. Without seeing the coin in hand, I'll venture a guess that it's nicer in hand, though I'll also state that I think at $900 it's overpriced. I'd also like to see other photos and the listing itself.
From this, you've shown one irrelevant coin, and another that, until I saw many more like it, I'd consider to be an outlier.
thanks for clarifying .
I've seen that Peace dollar in person, it is very stunning. I think it's owned by a forum member here. The 79-S looks very nice too, looks like it could be a proof-like obverse. I think the toning is fine and NT for that coin.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Looking for "best answer" button.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Thank you. PS my max is 1,000 millihelens as Helen's beauty I assume was unsurpassed. Thus my max is 2X FMV.
(PPS I really don't collect toners per se, but if I did,,,,. )
Any Formulas to Pricing Toners Like This??
I'm no expert, but for there to be any sort of premium for a toned coin it has to also meet other criteria. one thing that's important is that the tone has to eclipse any other negative aspects of the coin. this is a common date, a lower grade and, quite frankly, not a very attractive coin past the arc of color. further, the suggestion of 10x the NGC listed price of $75 for this coin is ludicrous.
my hunch for the NGC grade of MS63* is simple, it is an average MS63 and they "starred" it for the color.
@keets
Well, I did not say my coin is worth 10x anything and "Similarly Toned" can be a subjective assessment.
Everyone I've shown it to in person likes it and many Facebook coin group members love it, you know...
they click on the "Love" Icon. Some of the guys are real experts!!
Know their vocabulary too, lol
.
@airplanenut
I see toned Peace dollars all the time on ebay, been looking for a nice one for awhile. Most of the
toning I see is splotchy, dark and simply unattractive imo. On top of that, they are way overpriced.
I was bidding on the 1879 S but the auction bids went too high for my budget. The auction took place over a year ago and ebay drops listing after 3 months. Even if you copy and paste them to email,
you usually get the "I've looked Everywhere" with the hood over the kids eyes photo. A screenshot will
show the listing with a mediocre image. Year ago, I could pull up listings from well over 3 months ago
without any problem. Ebay must have a good reason for the change, lol.
I know if I posted a 100K coin that was as ugly as sin, it would get a lot of likes!!
I got this one really cheap on eBay........
I love toned coins, but I like my Peace Dollars blast white. RAW coin and probably QC, but considering the upside for toned Peace dollars, maybe I should submit it? Or dip it?
OINK
Nice color, even AT'd.
..........
Ask @blitzdude , Lol!
looks like strong UNC, MS64? AT of course. About how much?
Which should tell you something about toning on peace dollars
Bought this coin about 6-7 years ago. Don't have any record of the transaction anymore, but I would doubt that I paid more than $50.00 as I too thought at that time it was AT. Not the only code .91 coin that I have ever bought, but usually happens when I buy RAW IHC PR coins that look RD. Most all of the IHC toners that I buy RAW seem to straight grade.
OINK