Any Formulas to Pricing Toners Like This?
Commencents
Posts: 349 ✭✭✭
I acquired this CAC, Stared beauty yesterday for a price I'm happy with. I've seen similarly toned Morgan's
go for 10 times or more retail during "Biding Wars" at auctions and used to scratch my head!
6
Comments
Don’t know about premiums of toners but nice coin!
Collector
91 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 56 members and counting!
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10x
The only true "formula" is how badly two people want said toner. Yours is a very attractive coin, and it looks like it has decent luster for a 63. For me, it has to be attractive, have decent luster with no flat or dull spots/areas. With nice toners, the assigned grade for MS coins is almost secondary, this is where a nice 63 could blow away a 65 on the price.
10-4,
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The Readers Digest Condensed version is.... No
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I do not no if it is a formula but I try to sell a coin for the amount I would be willing to pay if I was purchasing it. Or a skosh more.
How similar is "similarly toned" and for what dates and issues? I ask because that coin is nice, but it isn't much more than that.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Formula? Each toned coin is unique.
I estimate the number of millihelens the coin rates, then divide by 10. The result is the percentage I apply over FMV for an untoned coin of a similar grade.
Millihelens!! Ha!
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not.
Whatever the market will bear. That particular coin does not get me excited.
There is certainly no formula, but years of experience can help with valuation. Of course, people have different tastes and that can make it harder and in valuing a coin you have to take into account what other people might pay, not just how much you like it personally.
Yours is a nice Morgan. The bottom band appears vibrant and beautiful. The rest of the coin is a muted orange/blue that doesn’t add much to the eye appeal IMO but on the whole it’s still worth a premium. I’d say $125 is a reasonable estimate for that coin.
I had to look that one up.
First thing that crossed my mind;
"When two tribes go to war
A point is all that you can score"
Two Tribes
Frankie Goes to Hollywood (1983)
IOW, the sky is the limit when two bidders want the same item. I am pretty sure most of us have seen some "out of this world" bidding...you know...moon money!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Refuse to pay for it until the seller dips it.
By "Similarly toned" I meant Morgan's that have vibrant "Rainbow" toning as in the crescent in this coin.
I don't specify any dates and issues in regard to toning, could be any year and mint.
I think this coin looks better in hand than the photo depicts and rightly received the Star and CAC designations. It' doesn't have as much contrast as the photo and has a nice patina that radiates with color on the "Skin" .
The experienced coin dealer who sold me the coin wrote "This is one of the coolest toned Morgan's I've seen!" on the invoice. I'm pretty picky and this Morgan hits the spot!
It’s a secret.
What does the reverse look like? A double sided toner usually demands a higher premium than a single sided one.
Dealer hype should be ignored.
Very tough to get the star grade at NGC or the 58+ grade at PCGS. Both services have big followings.
Are you saying it might AT?
I considered that possibility but figured NGC would have labeled it as such without the Star* and CAC would not have approved.
The color progression looks natural to me and I placed a raw Morgan on top of the holder. The edge of the raw coin fits right into the crescent! Had to have had a Morgan lying on top of it while it toned in the mint bag. This was a fun experiment!
Too many contacts marks and limited color for my taste. Deep pockets typically bid up higher grades with more color. 63/4’s don’t bring big money unless they are exceptional.
I am not a toner guy or chaser, but In all honesty, this coin doesn't seem to have the pizzaz that the chasers like, the ones that sell like in the legend auction last night for strong bids, they just seem to pop in eye-appeal. Yours is just nice
I will add though, yours has to be fairly nice, it did get the star designation
It was just a joke.
Made me think enough to put the raw Morgan on top! My partner just called me Sherlock, lol
I wish! I know double siders can be worth more. Reverse is satin white, very clean and looks ms64,
Makes for a great contrast!
Always hard to price. The more area the color covers, the more intense the color and the more green, red and yellows the higher the price.
You coin is nice, but no where near 10X premium. Maybe 2-3x a white MS63
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Check out the Northern Lights collection auctioned off by Legend a couple years ago. Multiple coins in there with PCGS Price Guide values of a few hundred dollars that sold for thousands - example - https://www.pcgs.com/cert/02365424 and coins with PCGS Price Guide values of a few thousand that sold for tens of thousands - example https://www.pcgs.com/cert/33533834
These are just 2 examples...there are many others.
While there's a toning premium for all coins, I think the higher up you get on the grade scale the larger the premium becomes.
I'll never forget the first time I saw their collection 6 years ago. This is in a private and NFS
This is the ONLY formula: Get two guys in a room who desperately want the coin and let the bidding begin.
Is that the one they call Halley's Comet?
Owner supposedly wanted $75,000 for it.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I really like the OP's coin. Sounds like you got a good deal.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
just depends on the buyer and how much they are willing to pay for such a coin
Coins for Sale: Both Graded and Ungraded
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oqym2YtcS7ZAZ73D6
I agree with the aforementioned $100-$150 price tag. NGC got a little aggressive with the star designation there for a couple of years and I am guessing this was graded during that period as it almost certainly would not star today.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The toning on your coin reminds me of the toning on my 1890 IHC PR. Rainbow toning at the lower obverse which is somewhat unusual.
PR65BN
I wonder how that happened.
OINK
A crescent of toning on an otherwise so-so toned coin is in the B level category of toners. I don't think I'd call it a B+. A pretty common "toner." It's the A levels of toners that really fetch the big premiums. I'd agree with the 2-3X premium stated earlier. And yet I'm sure that are many who would say that's too stiff a premium....bringing over generic MS65 money.
A simple way to improve your Morgan "toner" pricing skills is to look through all the toned Morgans in 63 to 65 grade at GC. Go back as far as you have time. After viewing a hundred to several hundred coins you'll be a lot sharper than when you started.
Here's a PCGS (OGH) MS63 CAC with double sided toning. If I was to sell this coin, I believe I could get $700-$800, maybe more. If this was a MS65 or MS66 I'd expect $1500-$2000 for it, and I might be low on that. As it sits, that's just a bit more than 10X the price of a white widget in this date and grade.
There are no formulas. I consigned this coin to Shane Canup several years ago and it fetched somewhat north of a grand, as I recall, which exceeded my expectations. The reverse is white.
I look at these tarnished coin prices with amazement and think to myself "Well, you saved yourself an incredible amount of money."
Now, if I were a seller, I would certainly capitalize on the tarnish craze....Cheers, RickO
Gotta ask, did you receive payment? Anyone know if Krypto got out of jail?
Yes, this was before insolvency had set in. Unfortunately, I didn't get paid on a different coin that sold for $4k. I also had sent him several Roosevelt dimes just to be photographed at the time he was busted. I might have been able to recover those with some effort but there was nothing I couldn't live without and it wasn't worth the time.
Remember that GC old holder PCGS rainbow toner that sold for nearly $10K? There were a number of large and attractive criteria that made that coin a winner; very aesthetic, smooth surfaces and a beautiful color pattern.
Personally I don't like to buy or sell coins that are hard to do technical pricing on, which can be very hard to get out of without taking a big hit.
I consigned with him also before he had issues. He actually then consigned them to heritage and they used his pics. In the end I did ok and actually got a wad of CASH. AS I recall some of the pics didn't look like the coins as I remembered them. Juiced pics come to mind.
As others have mentioned, there is no set formula. Pricing these is as much an art as it is a science.
Your example is nice but not one that would be a 10x guide toner. The $150-$275 range is about right (and that's where I see the selling price has fallen).
Nice looking coin.
Close! It's called "The Comet" owned by Paragon Numismatics. As far as I know, the owner isn't selling it
right now. He has another Morgan that looks very much like a Northern Lights one.
http://paragoncoins.com/inventory_of_sale.php
He was sentenced to 15 years in prison in 2018 so it's very likely he's still incarcerated. I bought a nice coin from him in 2015 and even with the juiced photo, I was pleased. I did ask him about the ebay photo before buying and he said "The Photo's represent the coin'. It was a pleasant transaction with Krytonitecomics before his downfall.
I looked at over a thousand MS62-MS66 listed as toners on ebay before deciding on this one. I don't spend nearly as much time at GC because I prefer BIN. I did just check out GC and there are quite a
few nice toners up for auction. I even placed a bid! I'm well aware this is not a top of the line toner but
very much enjoy it for it's beauty. I rate it a B+ and on a good day, an A coin, lol.
Here's one that's destined to go for 40K++ at GC. It's a Wow coin!
Formula? Crack and place in bowl of 100% Weimans tarnish remover. Like magic in about 10-20 seconds she will be beautiful again just the way she used to be before she picked up a case of the nasty. Give a quick rinse under cold tap water and pat dry with a nice soft towel. Congrats!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
I think you have to start with the actual grade before considering toning. If it becomes difficult because of the grade, that matters. Then objectively look at the toning. It it just obverse? Just Reverse? consistent on each side? How attractive is it really? I'd give the OP's coin a 5, I'd give androids coin an 8 (as an example).
Going 10x or so on a 5 makes sense if it's fairly high grade. If it's MS 61, probably not. I'd give 20 times on an 8 in high grade, in MS 63, probably just 10X.
No real formula but definite guide posts.
Your coin is attractive and I don't want to say anything bad about it. Going back to your first post, can you show some examples of coins that sold for 10x retail and then give a clue as to what the premium was on this coin? I ask because your question is how does a premium get determined, and the information you've provided is incomplete. Truth is, a premium gets determined based on what a buyer is willing to pay (or in auction, what multiple bidders are willing to pay). Often, that amount can be used to determine exactly how nice the toning is. I remember when I first got some toned Morgans and thought they were A coins, and then I saw what real A coins could be. It doesn't mean I didn't like the coins I had anymore (many of the coins I saw were far beyond what I could/would pay), but it made me be realistic about what I had compared to what's available. Price point is a separate consideration. Getting a B coin for a C price can still be a good deal, but paying B money for a B coin doesn't make the coin an A.
That's certainly an expensive coin, but it being a wow coin depends. I'm no expert on that date, but I'm not a fan of the splotches. If I were buying it as a toner, I see room for improvement. For the combination of color and technical quality, it may well be near the pinnacle. Of course, it may also be a tough date for color, in which case if date matters, it could be great. I've focused more on color rather than date. As a result I have a lot of duplicates of some common dates for color, but the result is better color at a given price point. I'm sure that 84-CC is nice for what it is, but in all honesty, it doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Here is an 84 CC I bought from Krypto raw in '13 or '14. Graded first shot thru PCGS at MS65. Sold later with a box of twenty at a Legend auction for 1200 IIRC. A forum member here purchased it.
While I really missed those twenty toned Morgans, I used the proceeds to help purchase a car I absolutely love to drive. Close as I will ever get to riding in a rocket ship. 6 spd manual with 707 hp
