@oldabeintx said:
Coins are a luxury item for me. I've delayed buying any luxury goods of significance whether I can afford them or not. Family and business come first and I may need funds for both. But then I have to make choices, not everyone does.
My big purchase this month was a second freezer for food storage.
I normally place tens of thousands of dollars in bids in an auction like Central States. I placed about 10 bids, very modest, hoping to steal the coins. I've won none so far, and I'm not sorry. [And I'm still working with no cash flow issue...yet.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@291fifth said:
Given the current economic situation I think it is time for collectors to sit back and consider what the future will bring. If even one deep pocket bidder in a thin market is forced out by economic problems the resulting decline in demand could bring sharply falling auction realizations.
Enjoy your hobby but keep it a hobby.
I wont attempt to predict the future. However, i will say if you told me that in the future there would be a pandemic, the country was locked down, unemployment soared to record heights and the market had historic drops-----i would assume the coin market would take a large hit. I am pleasantly surprised that so far from the results of the Stacks and Central States auctions coins have been fairly solid.
The privileged have not been affected yet
That is simply an untrue statement. Some very privileged people have died and other have become extremely sick. Further, many wealthy people have lost considerable sums of money. Not asking for you to pity them more or less but to say they "have not been affected" is not true. They have been affected and if they still buy coins that is a good thing.
Regardless, what i have seen from those auctions and reading dealer reports is that coins in general have held up decently. Maybe a drop of 10% for certain areas but again far better than i would have thought.
Not financially. The 25 million people out of work don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins. They NEVER bought 4 or 5 figure coins. You won't see the affect on a major auction like Central States until the economy is completely trashed.
The fact that anyone spent $5,000 on a coin this week proves they have not been affected. There are people worried about losing their businesses and their homes. THOSE people have been affected.
Again, you make sweeping statements as fact when they are just your opinion. No---it is not a fact if someone spent $5000 on a coin this week they have not been affected. They could have been "affected" but have optimism about the future, they could have found a coin they were looking forever and their love of coins had them pull the trigger despite being "affected", they may have sold other coins to buy the $5000 coin, etc
P.S. Of course everything I state is my opinion. Everything YOU state is just your opinion. Do I have to put that qualifier in every post?
I'll start every post with "In my opinion..." if you do the same.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@291fifth said:
Given the current economic situation I think it is time for collectors to sit back and consider what the future will bring. If even one deep pocket bidder in a thin market is forced out by economic problems the resulting decline in demand could bring sharply falling auction realizations.
Enjoy your hobby but keep it a hobby.
I wont attempt to predict the future. However, i will say if you told me that in the future there would be a pandemic, the country was locked down, unemployment soared to record heights and the market had historic drops-----i would assume the coin market would take a large hit. I am pleasantly surprised that so far from the results of the Stacks and Central States auctions coins have been fairly solid.
The privileged have not been affected yet
That is simply an untrue statement. Some very privileged people have died and other have become extremely sick. Further, many wealthy people have lost considerable sums of money. Not asking for you to pity them more or less but to say they "have not been affected" is not true. They have been affected and if they still buy coins that is a good thing.
Regardless, what i have seen from those auctions and reading dealer reports is that coins in general have held up decently. Maybe a drop of 10% for certain areas but again far better than i would have thought.
Not financially. The 25 million people out of work don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins. They NEVER bought 4 or 5 figure coins. You won't see the affect on a major auction like Central States until the economy is completely trashed.
The fact that anyone spent $5,000 on a coin this week proves they have not been affected. There are people worried about losing their businesses and their homes. THOSE people have been affected.
Again, you make sweeping statements as fact when they are just your opinion. No---it is not a fact if someone spent $5000 on a coin this week they have not been affected. They could have been "affected" but have optimism about the future, they could have found a coin they were looking forever and their love of coins had them pull the trigger despite being "affected", they may have sold other coins to buy the $5000 coin, etc
This, of course, is just your opinion.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@291fifth said:
Given the current economic situation I think it is time for collectors to sit back and consider what the future will bring. If even one deep pocket bidder in a thin market is forced out by economic problems the resulting decline in demand could bring sharply falling auction realizations.
Enjoy your hobby but keep it a hobby.
I wont attempt to predict the future. However, i will say if you told me that in the future there would be a pandemic, the country was locked down, unemployment soared to record heights and the market had historic drops-----i would assume the coin market would take a large hit. I am pleasantly surprised that so far from the results of the Stacks and Central States auctions coins have been fairly solid.
The privileged have not been affected yet
That is simply an untrue statement. Some very privileged people have died and other have become extremely sick. Further, many wealthy people have lost considerable sums of money. Not asking for you to pity them more or less but to say they "have not been affected" is not true. They have been affected and if they still buy coins that is a good thing.
Regardless, what i have seen from those auctions and reading dealer reports is that coins in general have held up decently. Maybe a drop of 10% for certain areas but again far better than i would have thought.
Not financially. The 25 million people out of work don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins. They NEVER bought 4 or 5 figure coins. You won't see the affect on a major auction like Central States until the economy is completely trashed.
The fact that anyone spent $5,000 on a coin this week proves they have not been affected. There are people worried about losing their businesses and their homes. THOSE people have been affected.
Again, you make sweeping statements as fact when they are just your opinion. No---it is not a fact if someone spent $5000 on a coin this week they have not been affected. They could have been "affected" but have optimism about the future, they could have found a coin they were looking forever and their love of coins had them pull the trigger despite being "affected", they may have sold other coins to buy the $5000 coin, etc
P.S. Of course everything I state is my opinion. Everything YOU state is just your opinion. Do I have to put that qualifier in every post?
I'll start every post with "In my opinion..." if you do the same.
You seem to love to argue and so i wont address this anymore with you since my main purpose was to make a point (ie my surprise how the market has held up under unprecedented conditions).
My final point is my statements may be my opinion but they are backed by facts. In my initial posts i said i would not attempt to predict the future but surprised how rare coins have done in recent auctions. The prices realized are a matter of fact and many articles have already been written analyzing them. In fact, you even made the statement you made numerous bids on recent auctions looking for bargains and couldnt find any! You on the other hand made the all inclusive statement that the privelged have not been affected by the pandemic. I simply pointed out how ridiculous your statment was (many on this forum who are well off have been affected by the pandemic). You doubled down by stating anyone who bought a 5000 dollar coin recently was not affected.
Anyway, ive made my point (our hobby has done far better so far through this national tragedy based upon recent auctions than many would have predicted). I wont comment on this further and i hope you stay healthy.
@291fifth said:
Given the current economic situation I think it is time for collectors to sit back and consider what the future will bring. If even one deep pocket bidder in a thin market is forced out by economic problems the resulting decline in demand could bring sharply falling auction realizations.
Enjoy your hobby but keep it a hobby.
I wont attempt to predict the future. However, i will say if you told me that in the future there would be a pandemic, the country was locked down, unemployment soared to record heights and the market had historic drops-----i would assume the coin market would take a large hit. I am pleasantly surprised that so far from the results of the Stacks and Central States auctions coins have been fairly solid.
The privileged have not been affected yet
That is simply an untrue statement. Some very privileged people have died and other have become extremely sick. Further, many wealthy people have lost considerable sums of money. Not asking for you to pity them more or less but to say they "have not been affected" is not true. They have been affected and if they still buy coins that is a good thing.
Regardless, what i have seen from those auctions and reading dealer reports is that coins in general have held up decently. Maybe a drop of 10% for certain areas but again far better than i would have thought.
Not financially. The 25 million people out of work don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins. They NEVER bought 4 or 5 figure coins. You won't see the affect on a major auction like Central States until the economy is completely trashed.
The fact that anyone spent $5,000 on a coin this week proves they have not been affected. There are people worried about losing their businesses and their homes. THOSE people have been affected.
Again, you make sweeping statements as fact when they are just your opinion. No---it is not a fact if someone spent $5000 on a coin this week they have not been affected. They could have been "affected" but have optimism about the future, they could have found a coin they were looking forever and their love of coins had them pull the trigger despite being "affected", they may have sold other coins to buy the $5000 coin, etc
P.S. Of course everything I state is my opinion. Everything YOU state is just your opinion. Do I have to put that qualifier in every post?
I'll start every post with "In my opinion..." if you do the same.
You seem to love to argue and so i wont address this anymore with you since my main purpose was to make a point (ie my surprise how the market has held up under unprecedented conditions).
My final point is my statements may be my opinion but they are backed by facts. In my initial posts i said i would not attempt to predict the future but surprised how rare coins have done in recent auctions. The prices realized are a matter of fact and many articles have already been written analyzing them. In fact, you even made the statement you made numerous bids on recent auctions looking for bargains and couldnt find any! You on the other hand made the all inclusive statement that the privelged have not been affected by the pandemic. I simply pointed out how ridiculous your statment was (many on this forum who are well off have been affected by the pandemic). You doubled down by stating anyone who bought a 5000 dollar coin recently was not affected.
Anyway, ive made my point (our hobby has done far better so far through this national tragedy based upon recent auctions than many would have predicted). I wont comment on this further and i hope you stay healthy.
You will again accuse me of wanting to argue, but I'd like to hold up a mirror. I didn't even argue with you.
I made a one sentence statement. Perhaps simplistic, but not everything needs to be an essay. You argued with my statement and I attempted to support it. And now you accuse me of wanting to argue?
The privileged - and I include myself in that group - have not yet been financially affected by this pandemic. It is the nature of privilege. Is that statement 100% true? Of course not. No sociological statement is 100% true. But it was not meant to be a sociological treatise, just an observation. An observation, frankly, that is self-evident in the data itself. If your bidding on luxury items has not changed since before the pandemic, you have not been financially affected by the pandemic.
That is not a criticism. It's just an observation. It is also an observation supported by objective facts:
1. The stock market is very close to where it was in October 2019. Minimal change in the wealth affect.
2. Social security and pension recipients have seen zero change in their income. In fact, they got a stimulus check.
3. The 85% of the population that is still employed have seen zero change in their income. In fact, they got bonus money from the government in the form of stimulus checks.
All of this is a LONG way to say what I tried to say in a single sentence. Those of us who are privileged have not felt an urgency to change our spending habits including luxury items, so I'm not surprised the Central States prices were not affected.
If the Dow drops to 10,000 and NYS and Illinois declare bankruptcy which trims the pensions of state employees...then I would expect to see an affect on the 4-figure coin market.
All of this represents my INFORMED OPINION...but still JUST AN OPINION.
It was also not meant as a counter-argument to what you said, mostly. You said prices were solid. I agreed. My only "contribution" was the thought that I wasn't surprised that they were solid because the privileged had not felt any financial pain yet. You seem to want it both ways: the privileged felt pain and, pain be damned, they bid those coins up.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@MrEureka said:
From what I saw of the US and World Coin auctions, prices were completely normal.
Maybe we are all grasshoppers who have failed to see that the winter might be coming. I bid too much on the British 5 pound gold coin because I wanted it to complete a set. My gut tells me I should not be doing that.
Maybe my usual pattern of watching almost every coin I bid upon at auction go crazy saved me from myself this time.
I did buy three inexpensive Roman coins on the Internet yesterday to scratch my itchy collector’s fingers. It will be fun to study them in detail and add them to my Roman Emperor history book. You can really get some nice looking coins in this area for less than $100 each.
I find buying coins from dealers so much more fun. Auctions are no fun at all. I could count on one hand the times I have gotten a bargain.
We're only grasshoppers if we're spending non-discretionary funds. The grasshoppers mistake wasn't having a party, it was having a party without first setting aside food for winter. If you've got the necessities covered, spend your money where it makes you happy.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@291fifth said:
Given the current economic situation I think it is time for collectors to sit back and consider what the future will bring. If even one deep pocket bidder in a thin market is forced out by economic problems the resulting decline in demand could bring sharply falling auction realizations.
Enjoy your hobby but keep it a hobby.
I wont attempt to predict the future. However, i will say if you told me that in the future there would be a pandemic, the country was locked down, unemployment soared to record heights and the market had historic drops-----i would assume the coin market would take a large hit. I am pleasantly surprised that so far from the results of the Stacks and Central States auctions coins have been fairly solid.
The privileged have not been affected yet
That is simply an untrue statement. Some very privileged people have died and other have become extremely sick. Further, many wealthy people have lost considerable sums of money. Not asking for you to pity them more or less but to say they "have not been affected" is not true. They have been affected and if they still buy coins that is a good thing.
Regardless, what i have seen from those auctions and reading dealer reports is that coins in general have held up decently. Maybe a drop of 10% for certain areas but again far better than i would have thought.
Not financially. The 25 million people out of work don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins. They NEVER bought 4 or 5 figure coins. You won't see the affect on a major auction like Central States until the economy is completely trashed.
The fact that anyone spent $5,000 on a coin this week proves they have not been affected. There are people worried about losing their businesses and their homes. THOSE people have been affected.
Again, you make sweeping statements as fact when they are just your opinion. No---it is not a fact if someone spent $5000 on a coin this week they have not been affected. They could have been "affected" but have optimism about the future, they could have found a coin they were looking forever and their love of coins had them pull the trigger despite being "affected", they may have sold other coins to buy the $5000 coin, etc
@291fifth said:
Given the current economic situation I think it is time for collectors to sit back and consider what the future will bring. If even one deep pocket bidder in a thin market is forced out by economic problems the resulting decline in demand could bring sharply falling auction realizations.
Enjoy your hobby but keep it a hobby.
I wont attempt to predict the future. However, i will say if you told me that in the future there would be a pandemic, the country was locked down, unemployment soared to record heights and the market had historic drops-----i would assume the coin market would take a large hit. I am pleasantly surprised that so far from the results of the Stacks and Central States auctions coins have been fairly solid.
The privileged have not been affected yet
That is simply an untrue statement. Some very privileged people have died and other have become extremely sick. Further, many wealthy people have lost considerable sums of money. Not asking for you to pity them more or less but to say they "have not been affected" is not true. They have been affected and if they still buy coins that is a good thing.
Regardless, what i have seen from those auctions and reading dealer reports is that coins in general have held up decently. Maybe a drop of 10% for certain areas but again far better than i would have thought.
Not financially. The 25 million people out of work don't buy 4 or 5 figure coins. They NEVER bought 4 or 5 figure coins. You won't see the affect on a major auction like Central States until the economy is completely trashed.
The fact that anyone spent $5,000 on a coin this week proves they have not been affected. There are people worried about losing their businesses and their homes. THOSE people have been affected.
Again, you make sweeping statements as fact when they are just your opinion. No---it is not a fact if someone spent $5000 on a coin this week they have not been affected. They could have been "affected" but have optimism about the future, they could have found a coin they were looking forever and their love of coins had them pull the trigger despite being "affected", they may have sold other coins to buy the $5000 coin, etc
@Gazes you have made your own sweeping statements in your reply, and from your replies its clear that you have no conceptual grasp of just how dire a financial crisis this is for a large portion of the population. Yes a few wealthy folks have gotten sick and passed on and that is not to be dismissed. But those individuals that can spend the big money we are seeing in these highlighted auctions are not trying to scrape together enough money to not be living in a box on the street next week. Only having a few million of your millions because of the situation is not even remotely close to being down to your last twenty dollars. Try being in the latter position and then tell me the wealthy have been affected.
So sad to see a really rare holder now lost forever just for a few registry points.
The holder wasn’t lost for registry points. But rather, for what ended up being a successful attempt at a higher grade and profit.
Yes for the crackout guy the motive was profit, but without the need for more registry points there would be less need for that grade upgrade. So in the end registry points are the end motivation for this behavior.
So sad to see a really rare holder now lost forever just for a few registry points.
The holder wasn’t lost for registry points. But rather, for what ended up being a successful attempt at a higher grade and profit.
Yes for the crackout guy the motive was profit, but without the need for more registry points there would be less need for that grade upgrade. So in the end registry points are the end motivation for this behavior.
There are many buyers who don’t care about registry points. Would you settle for “So in the end, potential registry points can be an end motivation for this behavior.”? 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
We are still grasshoppers if we over pay now with “auction exuberance” driving it, and market really crashes because we are in the next Great Depression. In that case the same thing can be had for a lot less. I know it takes a while for owners to decide to take their lumps and sell, but it happens eventually.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
So sad to see a really rare holder now lost forever just for a few registry points.
The holder wasn’t lost for registry points. But rather, for what ended up being a successful attempt at a higher grade and profit.
Yes for the crackout guy the motive was profit, but without the need for more registry points there would be less need for that grade upgrade. So in the end registry points are the end motivation for this behavior.
People seem to be forgetting that the coin may be a 65+ worth all the money?
I did not view the coin in hand. How many of you have? What did you think?
No shows and most coin shops closed has probably driven more money to the auction venue. Here in the Detroit area nearly 6000 hospital employees were laid off last week. I'll bet they weren't bidding in the auction.
The concentration of wealth that has taken place in the last 40 years means that there is a small percentage of the population that, in spite of stock market losses, can still afford to pursue their collections. The question is ... for how long.
Don't be surprised if things like luxury taxes are discussed in the near future with things like jewelry and collectibles as a target. Such taxes would have no chance of passing the current US Congress but remember this is an election year.
So sad to see a really rare holder now lost forever just for a few registry points.
The holder wasn’t lost for registry points. But rather, for what ended up being a successful attempt at a higher grade and profit.
Yes for the crackout guy the motive was profit, but without the need for more registry points there would be less need for that grade upgrade. So in the end registry points are the end motivation for this behavior.
People seem to be forgetting that the coin may be a 65+ worth all the money?
I did not view the coin in hand. How many of you have? What did you think?
The coin itself hasn't changed so the coin speaks for itself, (I have not seen it in hand) the written grade is there for the ego need, the need that some people have to claim the top of the heap. Not every collector needed to have a new grade on that coin, the crackout guy understands that there is a segment of collectors that are not happy to just have a great coin but that also need the label to say its a great coin. But there are collectors that would have been very happy to pay up for the coin itself not the label. Now would anyone pay twice the price to keep the holder, likely not. Competition is all about ego, a need to not just claim to be best but to show it with the highest grade on the label, if registries were more about who has the nicest coins instead of who has the highest grade you would not see the constant need to inflate grades.
Edited to add: The OGH thread is an example of collectors that have great coins but who are not as driven to have a point upgrade, because I think that many in that thread could upgrade if cracked.
"There are 103 $3 pieces in the sale. For 101 of those, in-slab photos are included in the listing. For those 101 pieces, exactly one (1) has a green bean, there are no gold beans."
I have often read that the $3's are the most often processed/cleaned of the gold series. I knew an old ANA dealer who cleaned every one he ever got and he was a market maker in these in the 60's, 70's and 80's.
My under $100 sales on E-Bay have gone thru the roof. Seems thats all I'm selling, but 15-20 packages seem to go out the door every day. It all adds up.
This has really surprised me, but its hard to argue with facts.
Bullion on the other hand at all levels (Up to $100,000 in single sales) are going gangbusters.
All in all, this is a good business to be in during these times.
“After buying on the cheap in Manila for the past 2 decades, I finally had to pay up today to get a few pieces from DR's collection. Besides being top pops of superb quality and eye appeal, the provenance was important to me personally. As always, just having fun.”
And as Khun Dan would say... “and lots of it”.
I am writing this now from right across the street from where JHF lived his last 15 years here in Bangkok. No better place to be as many of his great coins sell this week. A lot of memories. Regretfully, we only got to finish a handful of the twenty or so articles we had planned to co-write with Justin (monstercoinmart on eBay) on all 14 USPI coin series in MS and proof before his untimely passing. But, at least we got to finish the articles on MS and proof Pesos- available here in the PCGS library. Man, did he love those coins!
Wondercoin
Is Bangkok locked down or are people out and about? How did you like prices for those red coppers today? Some records were broken for sure. I got blown out of the series, but picked up some nice silver from 10c to 1p. Will hold a special place in my collection. RIP JHF!
Thailand has had a curfew from 10:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m., stopped all alcohol sales, closed all beaches, prohibited all gatherings of 10 or more people (so all weddings, etc. we’re cancelled in the country), went door to door checking the health of its citizens in at least one major city and also stopped all foreigners from entering (or leaving) the country as well for quite a while now. As a consequence of these and other strong measures, here are Thailand’s official numbers through yesterday:
2,922 people infected
2,594 discharged from hospital
277 in the hospital
51 dead
These are truly remarkable numbers considering Bangkok was the #1 most visited city in the World the past few years! Thailand has a population of around 70 million- a little less than 1/4 of the USA population. It is heartbreaking to compare Thailand’s fatality numbers (51) to the nearly 55,000 who have perished already in the USA.
So how is this possible? My personal take...
March through May are Thailand’s hottest months. Temperatures hit 40C a few weeks ago. Around 36C now. February is hot as well. Perhaps the climate has really helped Thailand and will really help our country as it gets closer and closer to Summer.
Nearly 3,000 people to the hospital with only 51 dead to date in Thailand. Again, truly remarkable.
But, Bangkok has some of the greatest hospitals in the World, including one (Bumrungrad) ranked in the Top 10 in the World just ahead on the list of next ranked Cedars Sinai, Los Angeles.
Will discuss USPI coins on a separate posting. Your question on COVID is obviously much more important to discuss than the Internet session at Heritage.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I got the one thing I bid on, and well below my max. But it was an esoteric item so you never know. I'll post pics when it arrives.
In the mean time, what was the story with the 1884 Morgan soft pack? It went for $1680 with the juice. Was that because it's "circulated" but graded NGC 63, or was it a vam?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
Comments
My big purchase this month was a second freezer for food storage.
I normally place tens of thousands of dollars in bids in an auction like Central States. I placed about 10 bids, very modest, hoping to steal the coins. I've won none so far, and I'm not sorry. [And I'm still working with no cash flow issue...yet.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
P.S. Of course everything I state is my opinion. Everything YOU state is just your opinion. Do I have to put that qualifier in every post?
I'll start every post with "In my opinion..." if you do the same.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
This, of course, is just your opinion.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
You seem to love to argue and so i wont address this anymore with you since my main purpose was to make a point (ie my surprise how the market has held up under unprecedented conditions).
My final point is my statements may be my opinion but they are backed by facts. In my initial posts i said i would not attempt to predict the future but surprised how rare coins have done in recent auctions. The prices realized are a matter of fact and many articles have already been written analyzing them. In fact, you even made the statement you made numerous bids on recent auctions looking for bargains and couldnt find any! You on the other hand made the all inclusive statement that the privelged have not been affected by the pandemic. I simply pointed out how ridiculous your statment was (many on this forum who are well off have been affected by the pandemic). You doubled down by stating anyone who bought a 5000 dollar coin recently was not affected.
Anyway, ive made my point (our hobby has done far better so far through this national tragedy based upon recent auctions than many would have predicted). I wont comment on this further and i hope you stay healthy.
So sad to see a really rare holder now lost forever just for a few registry points.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
You will again accuse me of wanting to argue, but I'd like to hold up a mirror. I didn't even argue with you.
I made a one sentence statement. Perhaps simplistic, but not everything needs to be an essay. You argued with my statement and I attempted to support it. And now you accuse me of wanting to argue?
The privileged - and I include myself in that group - have not yet been financially affected by this pandemic. It is the nature of privilege. Is that statement 100% true? Of course not. No sociological statement is 100% true. But it was not meant to be a sociological treatise, just an observation. An observation, frankly, that is self-evident in the data itself. If your bidding on luxury items has not changed since before the pandemic, you have not been financially affected by the pandemic.
That is not a criticism. It's just an observation. It is also an observation supported by objective facts:
1. The stock market is very close to where it was in October 2019. Minimal change in the wealth affect.
2. Social security and pension recipients have seen zero change in their income. In fact, they got a stimulus check.
3. The 85% of the population that is still employed have seen zero change in their income. In fact, they got bonus money from the government in the form of stimulus checks.
All of this is a LONG way to say what I tried to say in a single sentence. Those of us who are privileged have not felt an urgency to change our spending habits including luxury items, so I'm not surprised the Central States prices were not affected.
If the Dow drops to 10,000 and NYS and Illinois declare bankruptcy which trims the pensions of state employees...then I would expect to see an affect on the 4-figure coin market.
All of this represents my INFORMED OPINION...but still JUST AN OPINION.
It was also not meant as a counter-argument to what you said, mostly. You said prices were solid. I agreed. My only "contribution" was the thought that I wasn't surprised that they were solid because the privileged had not felt any financial pain yet. You seem to want it both ways: the privileged felt pain and, pain be damned, they bid those coins up.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
We're only grasshoppers if we're spending non-discretionary funds. The grasshoppers mistake wasn't having a party, it was having a party without first setting aside food for winter. If you've got the necessities covered, spend your money where it makes you happy.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@Gazes you have made your own sweeping statements in your reply, and from your replies its clear that you have no conceptual grasp of just how dire a financial crisis this is for a large portion of the population. Yes a few wealthy folks have gotten sick and passed on and that is not to be dismissed. But those individuals that can spend the big money we are seeing in these highlighted auctions are not trying to scrape together enough money to not be living in a box on the street next week. Only having a few million of your millions because of the situation is not even remotely close to being down to your last twenty dollars. Try being in the latter position and then tell me the wealthy have been affected.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I think it was the 75 grand that made the holder go away.
My guess is that the holder wasn’t lost for registry points. But rather, for what ended up being a successful attempt at a higher grade and profit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes for the crackout guy the motive was profit, but without the need for more registry points there would be less need for that grade upgrade. So in the end registry points are the end motivation for this behavior.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
There are many buyers who don’t care about registry points. Would you settle for “So in the end, potential registry points can be an end motivation for this behavior.”? 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
We are still grasshoppers if we over pay now with “auction exuberance” driving it, and market really crashes because we are in the next Great Depression. In that case the same thing can be had for a lot less. I know it takes a while for owners to decide to take their lumps and sell, but it happens eventually.
A reasonable compromise Mark.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
People seem to be forgetting that the coin may be a 65+ worth all the money?
I did not view the coin in hand. How many of you have? What did you think?
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
No shows and most coin shops closed has probably driven more money to the auction venue. Here in the Detroit area nearly 6000 hospital employees were laid off last week. I'll bet they weren't bidding in the auction.
The concentration of wealth that has taken place in the last 40 years means that there is a small percentage of the population that, in spite of stock market losses, can still afford to pursue their collections. The question is ... for how long.
Don't be surprised if things like luxury taxes are discussed in the near future with things like jewelry and collectibles as a target. Such taxes would have no chance of passing the current US Congress but remember this is an election year.
The coin itself hasn't changed so the coin speaks for itself, (I have not seen it in hand) the written grade is there for the ego need, the need that some people have to claim the top of the heap. Not every collector needed to have a new grade on that coin, the crackout guy understands that there is a segment of collectors that are not happy to just have a great coin but that also need the label to say its a great coin. But there are collectors that would have been very happy to pay up for the coin itself not the label. Now would anyone pay twice the price to keep the holder, likely not. Competition is all about ego, a need to not just claim to be best but to show it with the highest grade on the label, if registries were more about who has the nicest coins instead of who has the highest grade you would not see the constant need to inflate grades.
Edited to add: The OGH thread is an example of collectors that have great coins but who are not as driven to have a point upgrade, because I think that many in that thread could upgrade if cracked.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
"There are 103 $3 pieces in the sale. For 101 of those, in-slab photos are included in the listing. For those 101 pieces, exactly one (1) has a green bean, there are no gold beans."
I have often read that the $3's are the most often processed/cleaned of the gold series. I knew an old ANA dealer who cleaned every one he ever got and he was a market maker in these in the 60's, 70's and 80's.
My under $100 sales on E-Bay have gone thru the roof. Seems thats all I'm selling, but 15-20 packages seem to go out the door every day. It all adds up.
This has really surprised me, but its hard to argue with facts.
Bullion on the other hand at all levels (Up to $100,000 in single sales) are going gangbusters.
All in all, this is a good business to be in during these times.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
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Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
https://gph.is/1NeUCj9> @wondercoin said:
Is Bangkok locked down or are people out and about? How did you like prices for those red coppers today? Some records were broken for sure. I got blown out of the series, but picked up some nice silver from 10c to 1p. Will hold a special place in my collection. RIP JHF!
FilamCoins:
Thailand has had a curfew from 10:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m., stopped all alcohol sales, closed all beaches, prohibited all gatherings of 10 or more people (so all weddings, etc. we’re cancelled in the country), went door to door checking the health of its citizens in at least one major city and also stopped all foreigners from entering (or leaving) the country as well for quite a while now. As a consequence of these and other strong measures, here are Thailand’s official numbers through yesterday:
2,922 people infected
2,594 discharged from hospital
277 in the hospital
51 dead
These are truly remarkable numbers considering Bangkok was the #1 most visited city in the World the past few years! Thailand has a population of around 70 million- a little less than 1/4 of the USA population. It is heartbreaking to compare Thailand’s fatality numbers (51) to the nearly 55,000 who have perished already in the USA.
So how is this possible? My personal take...
March through May are Thailand’s hottest months. Temperatures hit 40C a few weeks ago. Around 36C now. February is hot as well. Perhaps the climate has really helped Thailand and will really help our country as it gets closer and closer to Summer.
Nearly 3,000 people to the hospital with only 51 dead to date in Thailand. Again, truly remarkable.
But, Bangkok has some of the greatest hospitals in the World, including one (Bumrungrad) ranked in the Top 10 in the World just ahead on the list of next ranked Cedars Sinai, Los Angeles.
Will discuss USPI coins on a separate posting. Your question on COVID is obviously much more important to discuss than the Internet session at Heritage.
Wondercoin
I got the one thing I bid on, and well below my max. But it was an esoteric item so you never know. I'll post pics when it arrives.
In the mean time, what was the story with the 1884 Morgan soft pack? It went for $1680 with the juice. Was that because it's "circulated" but graded NGC 63, or was it a vam?
--Severian the Lame