Emery Mae Holden's (Norweb) grandfather Liberty Holden was probably the most important person in selling and gifting land in 1881-1882 to Western Reserve University (Adelbert College) in University Circle, Cleveland, Ohio which allowed the University to move from Hudson, Ohio to Cleveland, Ohio in 1882-1883.
The Holden Farm was purchased, providing 46 acres of land on which the new University Circle campuses of Case School of Applied Science and Western Reserve University were built.
The University is now known as Case Western Reserve University or simply Case. Both Cardinal, a previously active poster here and myself are graduates of Case.
The University is now known as Case Western Reserve University or simply Case. Both Cardinal, a previously active poster here and myself are graduates of Case.
I would have to contact the archive office of Case and ask for it. I have never asked them for any material before. I always just used to go look at the stuff myself! It shouldn't be difficult to ask them to put it on the internet for me to post here unless they need to keep it private and i can't see why after 120 years.
I am not sure who the next door neighbor, Martha C Ford was and if any relation to the Ford family.
TDN:
Wow?? All we did was party! Actually I met my wife there!
Great thread! I am glad to see that coin again. I was one of the bidders on that coin, but had to give up at about half price. I thought a neat coin for my type set. I even thought it had my name on it. They don't show up too often and this one had a great pedigree. I actually thought I had a shot a it but it became clear after a few seconds that my pockets were not deep enough that day. Glad you got it and are sharing it today. Thanks!
This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history.
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Wow! Thanks for the update (and the intention to donate it)....Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
I remember hearign the Oreville part but don't remember the museum part. Sounds like a cool idea!
Want to buy an auction catalog for the William Hesslein Sale (December 2, 1926). Thanks to all those who have helped us obtain the others!!!
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Make sure it will be donated to a museum that will actually display it rather put it into storage like the Smithsonian Institute.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Make sure it will be donated to a museum that will actually display it rather put it into storage like the Smithsonian Institute. >>
Definitely agree. I had originally donated my trade dollars to the Smithsonian in my will - then after they got rid of the coin display I removed that provision.
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Make sure it will be donated to a museum that will actually display it rather put it into storage like the Smithsonian Institute. >>
Definitely agree. I had originally donated my trade dollars to the Smithsonian in my will - then after they got rid of the coin display I removed that provision. >>
TDN, Not saying that I have any say if how or what you do with your stuff.
That being said the Smithsonian is a fluid display of national treasures that would be impossible to display all at once do to the enormity of the collection. The current display and format of what is showcased is really just indicative of current management and will change as crowds and employees pass, I am sure that they will focus on coins at some point in the future. That being said you posses something that probably can't be recreated again, owing to your financial resources and timing. A complete collection of an important side bar of the history of our coinage many of which are by far the finest by a long shot encompassing 2 of the elite rarities (84-85). Lots of people talk about giving their collections to here or there but yours is of national importance. In a perfect world I would like to see the Smithsonian have the best complete run of everything esp when we go away from metal currency in the future. If you wanted them to stay together and be available to the people I would say you have no better choice as other smaller museums tend to sell off high value items as times get tuff.
I think this might be a great idea, drilling a hole in my very first collectable coin I owned (which was a worn 1910 cent by the way ). Perhaps this was the reason why Norweb got into coins.....she thought the same way most folks here think......what a shame that someone put a hole into that thing.
On another note; I really can't see how anyone could make a connection for owning such a piece of history unless they were related to the Norwebs. Which leads to another question; why wasn'tit passed down further along and kept in the family. (of course we all know the answer to that....such history would be of little use for one individual, Which supports the reasoning why anyone would ever want to own such a piece) The reasoning behind the good intentions of the present owners.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Fantastic story, TDN and what a keepsake!!! Thank you so much for sharing this with us, I guarantee many people will take note of the Norweb family history with a bit more intensity now. Congrats. Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>If I owned it, I would put that thing on a chain and wear it. >>
Yup. Why not? It's not like you could do anymore damage to it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
WOW! Very cool coin to say the least. The story that goes along with the coin is just amazing! Thanks for sharing and I am glad someone who appreciates the coin now owns it....Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
<< <i> On a serious note, how long do you plan on owning it before it gets donated to a real museum? >>
That has been a real problem figuring this out. TDN and I have heard of so many horror stories about the various museums out there.
The fiasco with the ANA just a short two years ago was freaking TDN and me out.
Even the ANS had a sale of some Norweb provenance coins through Stacks several years because they were "duplicates." I also bought one of them.
But we will figure it out. It is a coin in which grade is not at all a topic of discussion. The watch fob hook on the holed coin is a clear reminder to all of us of a gentler and more relaxing time in the field of numismatics which can still enjoy today if we want.
That is part of the reason why I am so esoteric with sample slabs, old TPG slabs, Daniel Carr Ameros, patterns, etc.
<< <i>On another note; I really can't see how anyone could make a connection for owning such a piece of history unless they were related to the Norwebs. >>
Ah, you did not read or remember my connection with the Norwebs? I have explained it several times on these boards.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Make sure it will be donated to a museum that will actually display it rather put it into storage like the Smithsonian Institute. >>
Definitely agree. I had originally donated my trade dollars to the Smithsonian in my will - then after they got rid of the coin display I removed that provision.
The American Numismatic Society would be more than happy to accept them, never sell them, and (as curator of the American coins) I can very easily arrange for a permanent display. Something to keep in mind!
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS). Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Great re-read - and nostalgic to see the posts from members who are no longer with us.......
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
both the Norweb family and Case Western Reserve are about 15 minutes from where I was born and raised. it's always interesting to discover ties to "Home" wherever it might be. I would ask both Oreville and Cardinal when you guys attended CWRU and what degrees you graduated with??
--- I would also add that in Kirtland, Ohio which is about 20 miles east of Cleveland is the 3,000 acre Holden Arboretum. The arboretum is named for Albert Fairchild Holden, established in memory of his deceased daughter, Elizabeth Davis Holden. I'm not sure what all the family connections are but we took a trip to Holden a few years ago and I had my picture taken under the "Norweb Tree Allee" sign which I was surprised to see.
@keets said:
both the Norweb family and Case Western Reserve are about 15 minutes from where I was born and raised. it's always interesting to discover ties to "Home" wherever it might be. I would ask both Oreville and Cardinal when you guys attended CWRU and what degrees you graduated with??
--- I would also add that in Kirtland, Ohio which is about 20 miles east of Cleveland is the 3,000 acre Holden Arboretum. The arboretum is named for Albert Fairchild Holden, established in memory of his deceased daughter, Elizabeth Davis Holden. I'm not sure what all the family connections are but we took a trip to Holden a few years ago and I had my picture taken under the "Norweb Tree Allee" sign which I was surprised to see.
Well, you asked for it!
I finished my studies at CWRU in 1984 with the following:
B.S. in Accounting, with minors in information systems and linguistics, 1982
M.B.A. in Finance and Operations, 1983
M.Acc. in Taxation, 1984
M.Acc. in Strategic Planning, 1984
Oreville is also an Accountant, but I know nothing specific about his degrees.
Martin, did you and Oreville attend together?? ever get out to the Arboretum?? during the time you were at CWRU I spent a lot of Wednesday nights at the Euclid Tavern listening to the "Mr. Stress Blues Band" as well as scattered evenings in the theatre district or down in the Flats.
you didn't spend all your time in the books, did you??
@keets said:
Martin, did you and Oreville attend together?? ever get out to the Arboretum?? during the time you were at CWRU I spent a lot of Wednesday nights at the Euclid Tavern listening to the "Mr. Stress Blues Band" as well as scattered evenings in the theatre district or down in the Flats.
you didn't spend all your time in the books, did you??
Oreville attended before I got there. I have been to the Arboretum many times, but not during those years. For the 6 years at CWRU, I commuted every day, so it was mostly book stuff!
Comments
The Holden Farm was purchased, providing 46 acres of land on which the new University Circle campuses of Case School of Applied Science and Western Reserve University were built.
The University is now known as Case Western Reserve University or simply Case. Both Cardinal, a previously active poster here and myself are graduates of Case.
Wow!
Orville, do you have the rest of that letter to post here? Fascinating material!
I would have to contact the archive office of Case and ask for it. I have never asked them for any material before. I always just used to go look at the stuff myself! It shouldn't be difficult to ask them to put it on the internet for me to post here unless they need to keep it private and i can't see why after 120 years.
I am not sure who the next door neighbor, Martha C Ford was and if any relation to the Ford family.
TDN:
Wow?? All we did was party!
Actually I met my wife there!
No, it is not just because of his last name Liberty E. Holden.
His middle name was also Emery!
Though I'd re-read this post and bump it for the newer crowd. Perhaps the best post i've ever read on here.
Needless to say, it should surprise none of you to hear that this particular holey makes my greedy li'l heart beat faster.
This was the last Federal coin ever sold out of the Norweb family collections. That should tell you how much it meant to them.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Wow! Thanks for the update (and the intention to donate it)....Mike
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
I remember hearign the Oreville part but don't remember the museum part. Sounds like a cool idea!
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Make sure it will be donated to a museum that will actually display it rather put it into storage like the Smithsonian Institute.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Make sure it will be donated to a museum that will actually display it rather put it into storage like the Smithsonian Institute. >>
Definitely agree. I had originally donated my trade dollars to the Smithsonian in my will - then after they got rid of the coin display I removed that provision.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Thank you, TDN for the original posting. (And please feel free to PM me if you need my personal information for your will.)
Terrific TDN.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This piece meant a lot to Oreville so I sold him half interest at half my purchase price. It is our intention to donate it to a suitable museum so all can share in its history. >>
Make sure it will be donated to a museum that will actually display it rather put it into storage like the Smithsonian Institute. >>
Definitely agree. I had originally donated my trade dollars to the Smithsonian in my will - then after they got rid of the coin display I removed that provision. >>
TDN, Not saying that I have any say if how or what you do with your stuff.
That being said the Smithsonian is a fluid display of national treasures that would be impossible to display all at once do to the enormity of the collection. The current display and format of what is showcased is really just indicative of current management and will change as crowds and employees pass, I am sure that they will focus on coins at some point in the future. That being said you posses something that probably can't be recreated again, owing to your financial resources and timing. A complete collection of an important side bar of the history of our coinage many of which are by far the finest by a long shot encompassing 2 of the elite rarities (84-85). Lots of people talk about giving their collections to here or there but yours is of national importance. In a perfect world I would like to see the Smithsonian have the best complete run of everything esp when we go away from metal currency in the future. If you wanted them to stay together and be available to the people I would say you have no better choice as other smaller museums tend to sell off high value items as times get tuff.
"Question your assumptions."
"Intelligence is an evolutionary adaptation."
<< <i>
<< <i>Congrats to you and GoldCoinLover on a fabulous purchase
Yeah, it's about time you bought some cool gold coins.
Very, very cool!!
On another note; I really can't see how anyone could make a connection for owning such a piece of history unless they were related to the Norwebs. Which leads to another question; why wasn'tit passed down further along and kept in the family. (of course we all know the answer to that....such history would be of little use for one individual, Which supports the reasoning why anyone would ever want to own such a piece) The reasoning behind the good intentions of the present owners.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>If I owned it, I would put that thing on a chain and wear it. >>
Yup. Why not? It's not like you could do anymore damage to it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This is possibly the finest piece (although not the most valuable) you have ever posted.
I have a small museum here in my garage, I'd be happy to accept the donation and let you folks come see it any time you want.
On a serious note, how long do you plan on owning it before it gets donated to a real museum?
<< <i> On a serious note, how long do you plan on owning it before it gets donated to a real museum? >>
That has been a real problem figuring this out. TDN and I have heard of so many horror stories about the various museums out there.
The fiasco with the ANA just a short two years ago was freaking TDN and me out.
Even the ANS had a sale of some Norweb provenance coins through Stacks several years because they were "duplicates."
I also bought one of them.
But we will figure it out. It is a coin in which grade is not at all a topic of discussion. The watch fob hook on the holed coin is a clear reminder to all of us of a gentler and more relaxing time in the field of numismatics which can still enjoy today if we want.
That is part of the reason why I am so esoteric with sample slabs, old TPG slabs, Daniel Carr Ameros, patterns, etc.
That was the lesson Emery taught me.
You said:
<< <i>On another note; I really can't see how anyone could make a connection for owning such a piece of history unless they were related to the Norwebs. >>
Ah, you did not read or remember my connection with the Norwebs? I have explained it several times on these boards.
Priceless connection.
<< <i>Thanks for bumping, I love this thread. It's one of the coolests posts I've read here. >>
+1
TDN & Oreville -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>Coin Forum HOF thread >>
What's HOF?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The American Numismatic Society would be more than happy to accept them, never sell them, and (as curator of the American coins) I can very easily arrange for a permanent display. Something to keep in mind!
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-AR4PT/1795-bass-dannreuther-1-taraszka-1-breen-1-a-rarity-3-net-f-12
Thanks for posting the pic @yosclimber
Latin American Collection
Great re-read - and nostalgic to see the posts from members who are no longer with us.......
One hell of a watch fob
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
both the Norweb family and Case Western Reserve are about 15 minutes from where I was born and raised. it's always interesting to discover ties to "Home" wherever it might be. I would ask both Oreville and Cardinal when you guys attended CWRU and what degrees you graduated with??
--- I would also add that in Kirtland, Ohio which is about 20 miles east of Cleveland is the 3,000 acre Holden Arboretum. The arboretum is named for Albert Fairchild Holden, established in memory of his deceased daughter, Elizabeth Davis Holden. I'm not sure what all the family connections are but we took a trip to Holden a few years ago and I had my picture taken under the "Norweb Tree Allee" sign which I was surprised to see.
Well, you asked for it!
I finished my studies at CWRU in 1984 with the following:
B.S. in Accounting, with minors in information systems and linguistics, 1982
M.B.A. in Finance and Operations, 1983
M.Acc. in Taxation, 1984
M.Acc. in Strategic Planning, 1984
Oreville is also an Accountant, but I know nothing specific about his degrees.
Martin, did you and Oreville attend together?? ever get out to the Arboretum?? during the time you were at CWRU I spent a lot of Wednesday nights at the Euclid Tavern listening to the "Mr. Stress Blues Band" as well as scattered evenings in the theatre district or down in the Flats.
you didn't spend all your time in the books, did you??
Oreville attended before I got there. I have been to the Arboretum many times, but not during those years. For the 6 years at CWRU, I commuted every day, so it was mostly book stuff!