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I bought a raw Trade$ on eBay..(well actually it's a Potty dollar..) is it real?
jayPem
Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
The obverse has "issues" but can you tell if it's genuine from just the reverse?
(..btw year is 1875)
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jayPem
Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
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I’m no expert but I’d say counterfeit. It just feels wrong to me but trade dollars are not my area of specialty.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Can we see the obv? Peace Roy
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I'm thinking genuine, but with issues.
There is something about the surfaces that seems off to me, but I know very little of the series so it could be me that's off.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Looks like porous surfaces to me. Environmental damaged. Still looks weird though. Not sure if its genuine.
The obverse may tell more!
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opium dollar?
I really can't tell from the photos if it's genuine. If it is, a 75 cc type 2 rev is a scarce coin. Here is mine for comparison:
I usually figure raw T$'s are fake until proven genuine. And I wonder why genuine ones aren't slabbed, given all the fakes out there.
This one looks a bit odd (the drawn shape of the legend letters, e.g.) but that may be due to the photography angle. It's not square to the camera so the whole coin appears out of round.
Knowing @jayPem, the obverse is probably engraved with a love message or something. Which would explain why it's not holdered.
My guess is genuine.
Lance.
As with the others, my first impression was fake; but not a T$1 expert by any means....
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Definitely issues with The Surfaces🤪
Fake. Look at those denticles.
That's my guess too Lance...
As to the photography, I wish that I just had it sent straight to you..😅
Taking phone pics through my loupe is about the best I can do..
Could that be a result of my terrible pic, or do you see something definitive?
I think because they look unevenly struck.
Did you weigh it? Or is it actually a Love token and so planed off.
It's that cell phone through the loupe thing. It's just not a cooperative image for those of you who might actually be trying to help me out here...🤔
Might be about time to post the obverse..
Fake, fake, fake. But I would have said that without looking at the picture. That just confirms it.
Oh, good. A psychic. Can you give me the PowerBall numbers?
That's too funny!!!!
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Ahhh a potty dollar
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
poo-poo dollar ???
I knew there as a bit more carp to go along with it
I can't tell.
There are a couple of points that don't seem to line up.
Can anyone tell from my best attempt to image the reverse?
From the obverse picture it looks like it comes open and may be hollow on the inside.
...she could use a small nose job if you got your pocket knife handy
Nicely made potty dollar! I might be reading too much into this, but her facial expression looks like she's concentrating really hard on something. Maybe the olive branch?
I think it's a real trade dollar.
One nipple variety, nice
A real trade dollar nerd would break that down into left and right varieties, inverted or everted, or both.
That was my first reaction, as well.
My first impression was fake.... after seeing it is a potty dollar, well, some of the reverse issues could be from the work done on it...but the denticles still do not look right... Cheers, RickO
I would buy them only if slabbed.
The op cc Trade Dollar / if real why not slabbed?
I say it’s fake.
That's called "straining at stool". It's what killed Elvis.
Definitely genuine. I would send it in, could be XF. Very scarce "seated pot" variety.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/6602
Probably should re-title this post in such a way that anyone with expertise in these bits of folk art might take a look...
Couldn't resist the temptation to mess around with the fake eBay T$ crowd but that's not really the point.
Or is it?
What is the earliest time period that very accurate fake trade dollars began to show up?
What exactly is the time period that legitimate potty dollars were made?
One issue here are my poor images, Sorry...
Taking pics through a loupe distorts the rims I'm seeing, so realistic images of the denticles are lacking.
Also my lighting is pretty glaring, I'm not capturing the aged look very well. My impression in hand is that this coin shows the type of circulated aging that is difficult to fake...
But nothing would surprise me at this point...it could possibly be a piece recently carved into a very well made modern fake T$, struck in silver and aged to perfection.
Why would someone go to all that trouble?
Because really nicely done potty dollars don't come cheap anymore...🤔
The reverse just doesn't look right to me, JMO, good luck !!!
from photograde
Why is this helpful 👆?
Already have a type 2 CC reverse image posted, if you are looking for minute differences that will confirm or deny anything, you need to be looking at the same die from the same year from the same mint.
You also need to be looking at a much better image than one I can provide, so unless you are an actual expert on trade dollars or potty dollars, there isn't a whole lot more to add...🧐
On the other hand, if any actual experts of the above have taken an interest and would like me to attempt a better pic of any part of the coin, I would be delighted to!
😊
Do you think you can get a sharp closeup of a part of the edge reeding, if not too beat up? A lot of the forgers don't pay much attention to the "third side."
The damage on the coin is various and possibly intended.
Not to keep this thread going indefinitely, but it is an interesting study...if the coin is a Chinese fake, then obviously the carving is not contemporary.
I put the likelihood of it being entirely legit above 90%..
That would be easy enough to determine by authenticating the host.
On the other hand, if it is bogus, it would be a work of such high quality deception as to make it a valuable piece to me for that reason as well...win win.
The edge looks pretty worn and dinged up so I can't make any definite conclusions from that. Those images do seem to show a sort of separation between the edge and rim that looks unusual. That makes me lean more towards counterfeit. It's really hard to evaluate things like dentils and detail sharpness when there is so much wear, surface damage, maybe even corrosion. Thanks for the quick work on the photos!
That edge thing is most perplexing!
Many here have guessed box dollar and I can see why, but in hand it's just not there..an artifact of lightning.
Kind of the same with alot if the other "issues" that show up under magnification. Looks to have had some sort of environmental damage on the reverse that was scratched at, thus the odd pitting and scratches that you see near 420 and fine...
I'm loathe to spend grading $ on this since I have no desire to entomb. I will probably just let a few T$ experts have a look at it when the time comes.
I'm probably creating more drama than required here, since short of an outright glaring pick up point, my images will create more problems than actually exist on the coin 😅
Looks 100% real to me. That lip on the edge is known on trade dollars. I’m not exactly sure why some are like that and others are not, but my working theory has been it’s due to slight differences in collar size, planchet thickness and possibly striking pressure.
And a real expert has arrived👆😅
Dan was the first person I showed this to (albiet with the same so-so pics..) if he feels ok with it so do I.
As I said, I can live with this coin wether legit or bogus 😘
Now, any thoughts on the possibility of a type two reverse?
Oops Kaz...I know you know what your up to as well.😃
Thanks, but Dan has examined a lot more trade dollars than I have, and if he has seen this edge phenomenon on other genuine coins that's good enough for me.
This is one of the more artistic potty dollars I've seen. The scroll handle on the pot and the textured floor (?rug} are nice touches.
Yeah Kaz can hold his own when it comes to trade dollars.
A while back, over the course of about 6 months I did a whole bunch of reed counts for trade dollars. That’s when I picked up on just how variable the edge profile can be. The SF mint even got in trouble with the mint director around 1876, the coins didn’t stack quite right.