First of all I have never referenced a Haystacks Calhoun card online ever. I don’t even own one. Yes I have referenced wrestling cards as examples of the strength in the hobby. Andre, Hogan, Flair etc. There has been a surge of activity around stars and thankfully I own a ton. Jordan is the most decorated athlete alive and his card is the card from the 80’s. Naturally I am aware that not all sales go through and fake comps are created. That’s why you keep them on your watch list and do your best to monitor the feedback numbers and actual feedback left. The card market is imperfect with little to no oversight and one must know that before going into it. I personally believe there is real interest in his cards. I only own a few and listed one and it’s not a high profile card and it is already near where prior sales are with over 150 views and 15 watchers in a few days. The number of buyers for trading cards have expanded significantly and I think that trend is set to continue.
Wow.........I just looked at some recent Jordan sale prices......are you kidding me???? Raw 1990 Fleer are going for $4-$5? I have a 200 ct box of those somewhere at my Mom's house!
@Dpeck100 said:
First of all I have never referenced a Haystacks Calhoun card online ever. I don’t even own one. Yes I have referenced wrestling cards as examples of the strength in the hobby. Andre, Hogan, Flair etc. There has been a surge of activity around stars and thankfully I own a ton. Jordan is the most decorated athlete alive and his card is the card from the 80’s. Naturally I am aware that not all sales go through and fake comps are created. That’s why you keep them on your watch list and do your best to monitor the feedback numbers and actual feedback left. The card market is imperfect with little to no oversight and one must know that before going into it. I personally believe there is real interest in his cards I only own a few and listed one and it’s not a high profile card and it is already near where prior sales are with over 150 views and 15 watchers in a few days. The number of buyers for trading cards have expanded significantly and I think that trend is set to continue.
I'm one of your watchers. i already own a 9 and don't intend on bidding but I want to see what it ends at. It looks better than a 6,imo.
It looks more like an 8 but PSA can be brutal on these stickers around surface issues. I was shocked when it graded a 6. I bought the set because there was a nice Tyson with the rare Gritti back. It got an 8 thankfully.
It looks more like an 8 but PSA can be brutal on these stickers around surface issues. I was shocked when it graded a 6. I bought the set because there was a nice Tyson with the rare Gritti back. It got an 8 thankfully.
I remember when you posted your results with pics here. Good luck with the sale.
It looks more like an 8 but PSA can be brutal on these stickers around surface issues. I was shocked when it graded a 6. I bought the set because there was a nice Tyson with the rare Gritti back. It got an 8 thankfully.
I remember when you posted your results with pics here. Good luck with the sale.
Was bored over the weekend sitting at home and figured I would give it a shot. I paid too much for the set based on the results of the other stickers so figured I would get a few bucks out of the buy. I will list some of the others as singles raw and graded at some point but not a high priority.
I think what is nice to see by selling one of his card is how many people are looking at them. Some of my wrestling cards get a good number of page views but many get a small number in relation to this. 157 page views after two and a half days is solid for a non marquee card.
This 8.5 has 313 watchers. That is a ton. Obviously many are just bystanders but you never see cards go cheap when there are this many people paying attention.
The beautiful sticker posted above has 201 just over a day in.
I just looked on Watchcount and there are only two other PSA graded items in auction format with more. A Trout and a Giannis and those copies are 10's.
It looks more like an 8 but PSA can be brutal on these stickers around surface issues. I was shocked when it graded a 6. I bought the set because there was a nice Tyson with the rare Gritti back. It got an 8 thankfully.
I remember when you posted your results with pics here. Good luck with the sale.
Was bored over the weekend sitting at home and figured I would give it a shot. I paid too much for the set based on the results of the other stickers so figured I would get a few bucks out of the buy. I will list some of the others as singles raw and graded at some point but not a high priority.
I think what is nice to see by selling one of his card is how many people are looking at them. Some of my wrestling cards get a good number of page views but many get a small number in relation to this. 157 page views after two and a half days is solid for a non marquee card.
I usually get more page views/watchers on my MJ foreign issue items that I list like this than I do his 80/90's cards and they usually sell well. One positive to having so many collectors at home right now is there's been a huge amount of more MJ stuff listed lately and with the Last Dance series airing soon should keep more of his cards coming. Hopefully some of my wantlist items become available.
@80sOPC said:
Isn’t it at least possible that the REA sale price might be tied to a previous new high that was never paid?
Thats the whole premise here, you have a card that is traded fairly regularly, a fake sale occurs - usually on Ebay, where there is no over-site to set a new high - and the card then beats that high at an AH and the new price is locked in.
This was the MO for some of the high end baseball rookies that gained immensely from 2012-16 until prices fell apart. I don’t have VCP anymore but I remember cards like Rose RC’s making huge gains and then one day there weren’t any buyers left at the manipulated prices. This all shows up in the PWCC indexes and I suspect the same thing is happening with 86 Jordans.
Doesn’t mean all cards or even the broader market is crashing, the hobby seems to be healthy. But there is no doubt in my mind that some of the key cards in the hobby and being manipulated, it is too easy, and there is too much profit to think otherwise.
I agree. The hobby is certainly very healthy despite a highly uncertain economy and all the issues with doctoring that recently came to light. Collectors will always collect, and I could see those who aren't adversely affected by the economy actually seeking more solace in their hobby, and seeking a connection to the sports they love that are now dormant.
There are certainly many, many legit sales out there in the card market. And often, a sale is decried as fake and indeed a real buyer exists.
That said, as you nailed with the REA Jordan sale point: one of the problems we collectors face is that many legit completed sale numbers were impacted— to an unknowable degree— by prior fake sales; in other words fake data points over time influenced a buyer's bid or offer.
I for one do not let the shenanigans, which are part and parcel of an unregulated market, deter me from my collecting pursuits or dampen my passion for the hobby that has brought me joy since I was a kid. It's just about knowing what is happening, keeping eyes open, getting a feel for what cards get targeted for manipulation, and above all never paying a price with which we are uncomfortable.
There are hobbyists who really get into the whole "market" aspect of the hobby, and where prices are going, and if that is how one gets down with the hobby, hey, all good. Just as there are guys who buy a stock or any investment and like to check the prices very, very often. This is just one collector's opinion, I tend to go the extreme other way: I will identify a card I'd like to own, hunt down an example I like in my comfortable price range, then enjoy the card and hope that if I ever do decide to sell it toward something else, it does well or about breaks me even. And if not, no problem, life goes on; I always view every card with an eye toward keeping it forever, which renders price moot, and also with the awareness one day it could be worth a ton less than what I paid. As with anything, comes down to managing expectations and one's horizon.
I posted about my coworker a couple months back...he found a rare Jordan card in a 5k count box in a closet he hadn't been into for a few years...sent it to BGS and got a 10....with the current state of Jordan cards, thinking this could get close to 20k if not higher
I wonder how much my 2000 Czech Stadion gold redemption Michael Jordan would go for. This card was only available through a redemption in packs of Czech issued Stadion cards, and only 5 copies have been graded by PSA. I love this card. This is not my copy, but this is what it looks like. I'm too lazy right now to go dig my copy up.
@doubledragon said:
I wonder how much my 2000 Czech Stadion gold redemption Michael Jordan would go for. This card was only available through a redemption in packs of Czech issued Stadion cards, and only 5 copies have been graded by PSA. I love this card. This is not my copy, but this is what it looks like. I'm too lazy right now to go dig my copy up.
@maddux69 said:
The hype might be driving that one up as there a better looking 10s out there with nice, clean edges.
I don’t know what’s driving it but remember the card market is supposed to be crashing.
People with this much disposable income will be much less affected by the incoming recession/depression than the average American worker.
I was just being a little sarcastic. I have actively commented on a thread on another board and I am an outlier suggesting the card market will continue moving higher. That’s where I assume the person got their outlier comment. I referenced a few cards like the Kobe that went for huge money and those don’t count I am told. I look at two cards as the barometer of the hobby. Jordan 86 Fleer and the 89 Upper Deck Griffey Jr. Both are exceptionally strong right now in the face of an avalanche in the economy.
There are plenty of people hurting right now and plenty not at all.
In terms of Jordan this looks like panic buying.
Feels just like a breakout in a stock.
No one can figure out why and the bids just keep coming in.
Listen, I don’t care what happens to Jordan RC’s or other cards, in fact I hope they go to the moon. But I’ve seen this movie before, only 4 years ago, where highly traded cards were pumped like crazy and still haven’t recovered. I also collected through the early 90s where every dad was stashing away cards for retirement, and Costco had lineups to buy Upper Deck French at 300 a pop. Everyone then was sure that prices would only go up but the whole market - save for truly rare and important stuff - fell apart. Same thing happened with weed stocks up here - when your buddies Dad is taking a HELOC to buy Canopy Growth it’s time to get out.
And I don’t have VCP but my understanding is the Jordan PSA 10 has gone from 15k-30k back to 17k now up to 40k all in the period of the past 4 years.
TBH have no idea where the market will go, maybe the Jordan will be a 100k card in 5 years but this feels like 1990 all over again, where clueless investors come in hard to make a quick buck and the cagey long timers play them for the fool. Add in a long drawn out global recession and my money is on this whole thing coming apart, with the rare and best stuff continuing to perform well.
The trend is up. In a bull market for stocks you can see 50% retracements in an uptrend and it is a strong market. The larger the uptrend the more fierce the pullbacks get. I am big into technicals and the Fibonacci sequence plays a major role in trade able markets. I think this run in Jordan's will cool off at some point and then re assert itself. I said the same thing about Mantle PSA 8's and that was fighting words to those that own them. Cards then find themselves in a consolidation or a side ways pattern in a range and then they move higher again. The Jordan won't sustain the peak of this move but it will go higher over time is my bet. That said none of us know where the peak is. Will a 9 peak out at $10,000, $15,000, no telling. So the retracement when it happens may take it back to where we all thought it was over valued or expensive. One thing we know is there is an imbalance of buyers for this card. Many are lucky you can't short trading cards because this would have generated a lot of ,margin calls as it explodes higher. I find myself in the category of kicking myself because I bought one in 2010 and sold it for break even. That said I applaud those that own them and hope for a positive outcome for them. Bull markets move in waves so it is actually natural for a monster run to have a sharp pullback and then an explosive rally that takes out the prior highs so the move from the mid teens to the 40k level and then back down and then up actually is very natural and makes a lot of since. Could this be a sell on the news moment? Sure. Very easily but betting against this card longer term is a fools game.
I am very familiar with the cannabis stocks and Canopy Growth in particular. I don't see people taking out lines of credit to buy cards in mass. In all fairness I fit the profile of your dad where I used home equity to play the market in 2006 and lost it trading options. I was left with a larger mortgage and nothing but heartache and larger payments to show for it. I said F this and never did it again. I consolidated my debt and went on a mission to pay it off and it took me 13 years and I became mortgage free. That said this bad experience caused me to use a much smaller amount to gamble with on options during this time and I had hit or miss performance but I decided I wanted to buy cards because the risk reward was so appealing. If you buy a card that you want for fun or speculation it will never go to zero. I had many cards that initially I bought went up and then down but over a longer period of time went drastically higher. I am a long term collector and not a trader or speculator and have dealt with many blows that have eventually not mattered. I went through the Hogan racist comments where his cards dropped in half overnight. Was I happy? Hell no. Did I lose sleep? No way. I actually commented on a thread on this board and said I thought that longer term the public would forgive him and the cards would recover and go higher. What happened? They not only recovered but hit all time highs in all grades. I invested in Mike Tyson. There was a number of people that said he is a rapist and a piece of Sh++. I said that may be true but he is the baddest man on the planet and I grew up in the Mike Tyson Punch Out generation and they would go up significantly. They did and then retraced and now are at all time highs once more.
This game isn't ending and people like cards and there simply aren't enough cards to meet demand. Sure there are cards like an 89 Fleer Griffey Jr. that are only worth something in a 10 and yeah maybe the 8 falls but the stuff that matters is going up and you see it every day. Why is a 84 Donruss Mattingly in a 10 where it is as today? It was stuck between $600 and $800 and then broke out and developed a higher trading range. There are numerous examples that fit this bill.
If the so called bubble bursts I will be holding the bag but the best part is I still own the cards and they don't expire like options and unless you need to sell you still have a shot. I bought a 85 Topps Tiffany BGS 9 with low sub grades of Roger Clemens back in 06 for $279. It fell to $50. I said F it there is only $50 left. I sold it last year for $265. It took awhile but it came back. Cards don't expire so the good news for all of us is you still get to own it and hopefully in most cases you enjoy it.
This sharp decline in economic activity is scary. A year from now, two years from now, three years from now and so on the stars will still be the stars and I think the interest in cards is up and the prices will follow. I have been very bullish for years and thankfully put my money where my mouth was. Could it all blow up on me? I guess but not really because it is just money and if this stuff goes down I would have lost it elsewhere.
Appreciate the response. I doubt you will be caught holding the bag, its not guys like you that will get killed, it is the guys buying flagship base cards in bulk as investments that will get wiped out. 1990 skybox MJ psa 10’s at 300 bucks is peak stupidity.
And def agree with your last sentence and that is how I collect as well. I have spent significant amounts of money doing much dumber things then buying cards. So no judgement from me, but I think a lot of people that are in this now for a quick buck are going to be disappointed, sure feels like peak bubble to me. The late dumb money is pouring in.
@80sOPC said:
Appreciate the response. I doubt you will be caught holding the bag, its not guys like you that will get killed, it is the guys buying flagship base cards in bulk as investments that will get wiped out. 1990 skybox MJ psa 10’s at 300 bucks is peak stupidity.
And def agree with your last sentence and that is how I collect as well. I have spent significant amounts of money doing much dumber things then buying cards. So no judgement from me, but I think a lot of people that are in this now for a quick buck are going to be disappointed, sure feels like peak bubble to me. The late dumb money is pouring in.
There is clearly some activity in cards where the odds of people winning are low. I don't dispute that. That said this discussion started around the Jordan rookie so at least it is a totally awesome card. There are millions of overall cards and the Jordan has to be in the top 100 and probably top 25.
I actually do a lot of calculated buys where I know going in I can't lose. Not all of the time but most of the time. Chasing a card that is up ten fold in the last few weeks isn't my style and while it might go up fifteen fold and one could sell at a quick gain that isn't for me.
I f you watch Youtube videos at all, which I do -- you see/hear every day how there are many new people that are getting into this hobby, either as a collector or investor, or both...not sure why it is so hard for some to see why prices continue to go up...increased demand = increased prices....to many, sports are a huge part of their lives, and collecting cards of their teams/favorite athletes is never going to go away...hop on and enjoy the ride
Plot a few years' data points of PSA and BGS 2004 Panini Mega Cracks 71 Lionel Messi. You'll notice similar multipliers and trajectory as exhibited by Jordan, even if the decimal point is in a different spot. Then take a look at the figures again at the start of the next World Cup. For the most part, I'm holding them for the long term instead of selling, though I parted with 3 last year, which was a tough decision since I knew they had no where to go but up and I knew I could get more in the future for sure, but still, it much more than covered the acquisition costs of those plus the other ones I'm holding on to since I wouldn't be spending the money it would cost to replace anymore. I'm wondering if others here are doing the same with their Jordans, for those who own(ed) multiple?
@doubledragon said:
I wonder how much my 2000 Czech Stadion gold redemption Michael Jordan would go for. This card was only available through a redemption in packs of Czech issued Stadion cards, and only 5 copies have been graded by PSA. I love this card. This is not my copy, but this is what it looks like. I'm too lazy right now to go dig my copy up.
Those are some boss cards...very nice
Supposedly, the Stadion gold redemption cards were each limited to a print run of 100, though they are not serial numbered. For some reason, even though the rest of the gold redemption set seems to have good centering most of the time, the Jordan card is nearly always OC.
The Jordan card is taking off because of speculators its like a roll of toilet paper you could get 5 bucks for one roll now because everybody is hoarding toilet paper. The problem with prices going up by speculation is that the bubble bursts and the price drops just look at the Etopps cards. I am not saying that these Jordan cards will start to fall but the probability of them collapsing is definitely a real possibility. Remember even though the cards are going from $1,000 dollars to $5,000 dollars 99% of the people who have these cards are not selling them. Once everyone starts to sell to cash in the prices will drop like the Etopps cards. Also all it takes is for a few collectors to start buying and selling and manipulating the market then they cash out before the collapse it could be a organized scam by just a few people. The young people under 30 are very venerable to this type of scam old people like me its harder to do because we have been around and have seen these scams before not just with cards but everything. As long as people want to make money without working for it these types of scams will exist there is always someone out there that is willing to take advantage of someones greed.
Seems every person spewing negativity on the increase in card prices, etc has 25 or less posts....guess the old-timers have a lot to learn from this new breed
@Kep13 said:
Seems every person spewing negativity on the increase in card prices, etc has 25 or less posts....guess the old-timers have a lot to learn from this new breed
This is really an exciting time! The more people that get into this hobby the better.
@Kep13 said:
Seems every person spewing negativity on the increase in card prices, etc has 25 or less posts....guess the old-timers have a lot to learn from this new breed
Wha???? I guess my hearing is going bad...old age has gotten to me... let me tell you kids....just like I didn't know when I was your age....you don't know greatness when you see it and when you do realize it...it's too late cause the prices are out of site!
@rmilin said:
The Jordan card is taking off because of speculators its like a roll of toilet paper you could get 5 bucks for one roll now because everybody is hoarding toilet paper. The problem with prices going up by speculation is that the bubble bursts and the price drops just look at the Etopps cards. I am not saying that these Jordan cards will start to fall but the probability of them collapsing is definitely a real possibility. Remember even though the cards are going from $1,000 dollars to $5,000 dollars 99% of the people who have these cards are not selling them. Once everyone starts to sell to cash in the prices will drop like the Etopps cards. Also all it takes is for a few collectors to start buying and selling and manipulating the market then they cash out before the collapse it could be a organized scam by just a few people. The young people under 30 are very venerable to this type of scam old people like me its harder to do because we have been around and have seen these scams before not just with cards but everything. As long as people want to make money without working for it these types of scams will exist there is always someone out there that is willing to take advantage of someones greed.
Don't agree at all...we're not talking about Greg Jeffries or Daryl Strawberry or Eric Davis etc...we're talking about the greatest basketball player whoever lived. I know I'm comparing baseball and basketball but you get the idea. Don't go senile on me old timer (from one old timer to another)...they said the same about 80 topps baseball (way overproduced) and last I checked it's $1800 a box. Rickey Henderson is no Jordan either...
I think long term trajectory for the 86 jordan will be solid, but this card is going to revert back just like it did a few years ago. We already know what price moves on this card look like. It won’t be different this time, and could be worse. Keep in mind it went up, and then quite a ways down between 2015 and 2019. And that was in a market with 4.5 % unemployment. I highly doubt it can hold these prices through 15% UE and a few quarters of recession. I am expecting the guys pumping the card to start dumping them in the next 6-12 months.
It will not reach previous lows when it corrects but it likely settles some where between prices today, and 2017 prices.
If anyone is interested in what pump and dump looks like on heavily traded cards, lots of examples to show you what to expect. There will be another good buying opportunity but it sure isn’t today.
@80sOPC said:
I think long term trajectory for the 86 jordan will be solid, but this card is going to revert back just like it did a few years ago. We already know what price moves on this card look like. It won’t be different this time, and could be worse. Keep in mind it went up, and then quite a ways down between 2015 and 2019. And that was in a market with 4.5 % unemployment. I highly doubt it can hold these prices through 15% UE and a few quarters of recession. I am expecting the guys pumping the card to start dumping them in the next 6-12 months.
It will not reach previous lows when it corrects but it likely settles some where between prices today, and 2017 prices.
If anyone is interested in what pump and dump looks like on heavily traded cards, lots of examples to show you what to expect. There will be another good buying opportunity but it sure isn’t today.
Don't agree and don't hedge your opinion. Either say it's going up or going down. Long term these prices are cheap, you are blind...you're talking about the Greatest Basketball Player whoever lived. Like I said before, Jordan's cards are going up in rough times....are they going down in good times??? Give me a break. A lot of dense people on this board...when it comes to Jordan.
Listen I’m just offering an opinion, take it for what its worth. Not sure why you are so triggered.
This looks and feels like the tail end of a bubble. Seen this in RE ( RE goes up forever, remember that one? ) and in equities. Seen it in cards as well. We are in the euphoria phase of the bubble - no matter what the price, it is cheap and will only go higher. The dumb late money comes rushing in. Sound familiar?
Next stage is profit taking, with the smart money getting out.
Factor in economic conditions - which based on these posts people aren’t truly understanding the long term effects of 26mm unemployed- and you have an interesting few months ahead. I will be watching with lots of interest - who knows maybe cards are completely resistant to a massive drop in GDP and prices go up forever. That would be a first however.
Here is the good news, we can revisit in a 1/3/5 years and see where it all landed. No need to argue over it, I respect your opinion, just disagree.
Very reminiscent of the 2016 run this card took. My feeling is this is the peak and there will be a pull back on this just like the last run. Seems to be the track record for this card. Major rush up in price, hits number where many feel it is not sustainable, prices drop and reset a little higher than where they were at the start of the push. Rinse and repeat in a couple of years.
The Jordan market also tends to attract the most manipulation so big spikes like this on a widely available card will always bring a lot of skepticism. Even as a huge Jordan fan and collector I have debated moving my PSA 9 Fleer at these current prices.
Difference in 2016 was other cards had major temporary spikes. Ryan, Koufax RC others has major lifts with this buying group mentality. Not seeing that now, only with late 80’s product at least IMHO.
Other cards are seeing major spikes. Pippen has tripled, the Griffey has tripled. Difference this time is the pumping is spread out amongst sports. But it is 100% the same behaviour as 2016.
I’ve always thought basketball cards and to a little lessor degree Jordan has been undervalued the last decade and I’m glad to see that changing rapidly now.
I still think a star cards are the best value and I hope those explode to the same degree that the fleer cards are. Is this kind of move sustainable? Who cares even if it drops a little the prices will reset at a higher price and I’m sure go up again from there in the future who expects it to be in a straight line?
Yes, 100%, however not seeing the spikes in older 50-60’s RC similar to 2016. That is the difference.
@80sOPC said:
Other cards are seeing major spikes. Pippen has tripled, the Griffey has tripled. Difference this time is the pumping is spread out amongst sports. But it is 100% the same behaviour as 2016.
The Jordan card is like the Mantle card its in a class by itself so its always going to move on a upward trend but that means it is not immune to speculators and manipulators both will increase the price of the card but just temporally price increases that are because of speculation and manipulation always burst sooner or later and it has nothing to do with cards its a economic issue.
@80sOPC said:
Listen I’m just offering an opinion, take it for what its worth. Not sure why you are so triggered.
This looks and feels like the tail end of a bubble. Seen this in RE ( RE goes up forever, remember that one? ) and in equities. Seen it in cards as well. We are in the euphoria phase of the bubble - no matter what the price, it is cheap and will only go higher. The dumb late money comes rushing in. Sound familiar?
Next stage is profit taking, with the smart money getting out.
Factor in economic conditions - which based on these posts people aren’t truly understanding the long term effects of 26mm unemployed- and you have an interesting few months ahead. I will be watching with lots of interest - who knows maybe cards are completely resistant to a massive drop in GDP and prices go up forever. That would be a first however.
Here is the good news, we can revisit in a 1/3/5 years and see where it all landed. No need to argue over it, I respect your opinion, just disagree.
There you go again just comparing JORDAN to basic market fluctuations and hedging. Blind......
Comments
First of all I have never referenced a Haystacks Calhoun card online ever. I don’t even own one. Yes I have referenced wrestling cards as examples of the strength in the hobby. Andre, Hogan, Flair etc. There has been a surge of activity around stars and thankfully I own a ton. Jordan is the most decorated athlete alive and his card is the card from the 80’s. Naturally I am aware that not all sales go through and fake comps are created. That’s why you keep them on your watch list and do your best to monitor the feedback numbers and actual feedback left. The card market is imperfect with little to no oversight and one must know that before going into it. I personally believe there is real interest in his cards. I only own a few and listed one and it’s not a high profile card and it is already near where prior sales are with over 150 views and 15 watchers in a few days. The number of buyers for trading cards have expanded significantly and I think that trend is set to continue.
Wow.........I just looked at some recent Jordan sale prices......are you kidding me???? Raw 1990 Fleer are going for $4-$5? I have a 200 ct box of those somewhere at my Mom's house!
I'm one of your watchers. i already own a 9 and don't intend on bidding but I want to see what it ends at. It looks better than a 6,imo.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
@erikthredd
It looks more like an 8 but PSA can be brutal on these stickers around surface issues. I was shocked when it graded a 6. I bought the set because there was a nice Tyson with the rare Gritti back. It got an 8 thankfully.
I remember when you posted your results with pics here. Good luck with the sale.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Was bored over the weekend sitting at home and figured I would give it a shot. I paid too much for the set based on the results of the other stickers so figured I would get a few bucks out of the buy. I will list some of the others as singles raw and graded at some point but not a high priority.
I think what is nice to see by selling one of his card is how many people are looking at them. Some of my wrestling cards get a good number of page views but many get a small number in relation to this. 157 page views after two and a half days is solid for a non marquee card.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362964215376
This 8.5 has 313 watchers. That is a ton. Obviously many are just bystanders but you never see cards go cheap when there are this many people paying attention.
The beautiful sticker posted above has 201 just over a day in.
I just looked on Watchcount and there are only two other PSA graded items in auction format with more. A Trout and a Giannis and those copies are 10's.
I usually get more page views/watchers on my MJ foreign issue items that I list like this than I do his 80/90's cards and they usually sell well. One positive to having so many collectors at home right now is there's been a huge amount of more MJ stuff listed lately and with the Last Dance series airing soon should keep more of his cards coming. Hopefully some of my wantlist items become available.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I agree. The hobby is certainly very healthy despite a highly uncertain economy and all the issues with doctoring that recently came to light. Collectors will always collect, and I could see those who aren't adversely affected by the economy actually seeking more solace in their hobby, and seeking a connection to the sports they love that are now dormant.
There are certainly many, many legit sales out there in the card market. And often, a sale is decried as fake and indeed a real buyer exists.
That said, as you nailed with the REA Jordan sale point: one of the problems we collectors face is that many legit completed sale numbers were impacted— to an unknowable degree— by prior fake sales; in other words fake data points over time influenced a buyer's bid or offer.
I for one do not let the shenanigans, which are part and parcel of an unregulated market, deter me from my collecting pursuits or dampen my passion for the hobby that has brought me joy since I was a kid. It's just about knowing what is happening, keeping eyes open, getting a feel for what cards get targeted for manipulation, and above all never paying a price with which we are uncomfortable.
There are hobbyists who really get into the whole "market" aspect of the hobby, and where prices are going, and if that is how one gets down with the hobby, hey, all good. Just as there are guys who buy a stock or any investment and like to check the prices very, very often. This is just one collector's opinion, I tend to go the extreme other way: I will identify a card I'd like to own, hunt down an example I like in my comfortable price range, then enjoy the card and hope that if I ever do decide to sell it toward something else, it does well or about breaks me even. And if not, no problem, life goes on; I always view every card with an eye toward keeping it forever, which renders price moot, and also with the awareness one day it could be worth a ton less than what I paid. As with anything, comes down to managing expectations and one's horizon.
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I posted about my coworker a couple months back...he found a rare Jordan card in a 5k count box in a closet he hadn't been into for a few years...sent it to BGS and got a 10....with the current state of Jordan cards, thinking this could get close to 20k if not higher
https://sports.ha.com/itm/basketball-cards/singles-1980-now-/2006-07-e-x-michael-jordan-essential-credentials-future-4-bgs-pristine-10-44-77/a/50026-56669.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515
I wonder how much my 2000 Czech Stadion gold redemption Michael Jordan would go for. This card was only available through a redemption in packs of Czech issued Stadion cards, and only 5 copies have been graded by PSA. I love this card. This is not my copy, but this is what it looks like. I'm too lazy right now to go dig my copy up.
Those are some boss cards...very nice
Like that Stadion Jordan.
I hope it keeps climbing. 3 PSA 8's and 1 PSA 7.
Brian
Nice!
Last night a well centered PSA 8 sold for $5350. It even had a small stain on the back.
Shane
Nine just sold for $9500
Scottie Pippen soaring!!!
People with this much disposable income will be much less affected by the incoming recession/depression than the average American worker.
I was just being a little sarcastic. I have actively commented on a thread on another board and I am an outlier suggesting the card market will continue moving higher. That’s where I assume the person got their outlier comment. I referenced a few cards like the Kobe that went for huge money and those don’t count I am told. I look at two cards as the barometer of the hobby. Jordan 86 Fleer and the 89 Upper Deck Griffey Jr. Both are exceptionally strong right now in the face of an avalanche in the economy.
There are plenty of people hurting right now and plenty not at all.
In terms of Jordan this looks like panic buying.
Feels just like a breakout in a stock.
No one can figure out why and the bids just keep coming in.
Listen, I don’t care what happens to Jordan RC’s or other cards, in fact I hope they go to the moon. But I’ve seen this movie before, only 4 years ago, where highly traded cards were pumped like crazy and still haven’t recovered. I also collected through the early 90s where every dad was stashing away cards for retirement, and Costco had lineups to buy Upper Deck French at 300 a pop. Everyone then was sure that prices would only go up but the whole market - save for truly rare and important stuff - fell apart. Same thing happened with weed stocks up here - when your buddies Dad is taking a HELOC to buy Canopy Growth it’s time to get out.
And I don’t have VCP but my understanding is the Jordan PSA 10 has gone from 15k-30k back to 17k now up to 40k all in the period of the past 4 years.
TBH have no idea where the market will go, maybe the Jordan will be a 100k card in 5 years but this feels like 1990 all over again, where clueless investors come in hard to make a quick buck and the cagey long timers play them for the fool. Add in a long drawn out global recession and my money is on this whole thing coming apart, with the rare and best stuff continuing to perform well.
The trend is up. In a bull market for stocks you can see 50% retracements in an uptrend and it is a strong market. The larger the uptrend the more fierce the pullbacks get. I am big into technicals and the Fibonacci sequence plays a major role in trade able markets. I think this run in Jordan's will cool off at some point and then re assert itself. I said the same thing about Mantle PSA 8's and that was fighting words to those that own them. Cards then find themselves in a consolidation or a side ways pattern in a range and then they move higher again. The Jordan won't sustain the peak of this move but it will go higher over time is my bet. That said none of us know where the peak is. Will a 9 peak out at $10,000, $15,000, no telling. So the retracement when it happens may take it back to where we all thought it was over valued or expensive. One thing we know is there is an imbalance of buyers for this card. Many are lucky you can't short trading cards because this would have generated a lot of ,margin calls as it explodes higher. I find myself in the category of kicking myself because I bought one in 2010 and sold it for break even. That said I applaud those that own them and hope for a positive outcome for them. Bull markets move in waves so it is actually natural for a monster run to have a sharp pullback and then an explosive rally that takes out the prior highs so the move from the mid teens to the 40k level and then back down and then up actually is very natural and makes a lot of since. Could this be a sell on the news moment? Sure. Very easily but betting against this card longer term is a fools game.
I am very familiar with the cannabis stocks and Canopy Growth in particular. I don't see people taking out lines of credit to buy cards in mass. In all fairness I fit the profile of your dad where I used home equity to play the market in 2006 and lost it trading options. I was left with a larger mortgage and nothing but heartache and larger payments to show for it. I said F this and never did it again. I consolidated my debt and went on a mission to pay it off and it took me 13 years and I became mortgage free. That said this bad experience caused me to use a much smaller amount to gamble with on options during this time and I had hit or miss performance but I decided I wanted to buy cards because the risk reward was so appealing. If you buy a card that you want for fun or speculation it will never go to zero. I had many cards that initially I bought went up and then down but over a longer period of time went drastically higher. I am a long term collector and not a trader or speculator and have dealt with many blows that have eventually not mattered. I went through the Hogan racist comments where his cards dropped in half overnight. Was I happy? Hell no. Did I lose sleep? No way. I actually commented on a thread on this board and said I thought that longer term the public would forgive him and the cards would recover and go higher. What happened? They not only recovered but hit all time highs in all grades. I invested in Mike Tyson. There was a number of people that said he is a rapist and a piece of Sh++. I said that may be true but he is the baddest man on the planet and I grew up in the Mike Tyson Punch Out generation and they would go up significantly. They did and then retraced and now are at all time highs once more.
This game isn't ending and people like cards and there simply aren't enough cards to meet demand. Sure there are cards like an 89 Fleer Griffey Jr. that are only worth something in a 10 and yeah maybe the 8 falls but the stuff that matters is going up and you see it every day. Why is a 84 Donruss Mattingly in a 10 where it is as today? It was stuck between $600 and $800 and then broke out and developed a higher trading range. There are numerous examples that fit this bill.
If the so called bubble bursts I will be holding the bag but the best part is I still own the cards and they don't expire like options and unless you need to sell you still have a shot. I bought a 85 Topps Tiffany BGS 9 with low sub grades of Roger Clemens back in 06 for $279. It fell to $50. I said F it there is only $50 left. I sold it last year for $265. It took awhile but it came back. Cards don't expire so the good news for all of us is you still get to own it and hopefully in most cases you enjoy it.
This sharp decline in economic activity is scary. A year from now, two years from now, three years from now and so on the stars will still be the stars and I think the interest in cards is up and the prices will follow. I have been very bullish for years and thankfully put my money where my mouth was. Could it all blow up on me? I guess but not really because it is just money and if this stuff goes down I would have lost it elsewhere.
Appreciate the response. I doubt you will be caught holding the bag, its not guys like you that will get killed, it is the guys buying flagship base cards in bulk as investments that will get wiped out. 1990 skybox MJ psa 10’s at 300 bucks is peak stupidity.
And def agree with your last sentence and that is how I collect as well. I have spent significant amounts of money doing much dumber things then buying cards. So no judgement from me, but I think a lot of people that are in this now for a quick buck are going to be disappointed, sure feels like peak bubble to me. The late dumb money is pouring in.
There is clearly some activity in cards where the odds of people winning are low. I don't dispute that. That said this discussion started around the Jordan rookie so at least it is a totally awesome card. There are millions of overall cards and the Jordan has to be in the top 100 and probably top 25.
I actually do a lot of calculated buys where I know going in I can't lose. Not all of the time but most of the time. Chasing a card that is up ten fold in the last few weeks isn't my style and while it might go up fifteen fold and one could sell at a quick gain that isn't for me.
Saw this pic posted elsewhere. This looks like a typical bull market.
I paid $500 for my 1987 Fleer Michael Jordan PSA Mint 9. I got it three years ago.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
OMG
Another fail on my part. I bought one in 2010 for $119 and sold it for $122. LOL
I knew it was going over $500 but now see sales over $1,000.
https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/174242899257?item=174242899257&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565
Maybe the buyers will change their minds but nothing looks odd about the top bidders.
I remember hearing a few months ago that "sneakerheads" where going to be invading the card market. Perhaps they've arrived???
I f you watch Youtube videos at all, which I do -- you see/hear every day how there are many new people that are getting into this hobby, either as a collector or investor, or both...not sure why it is so hard for some to see why prices continue to go up...increased demand = increased prices....to many, sports are a huge part of their lives, and collecting cards of their teams/favorite athletes is never going to go away...hop on and enjoy the ride
https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=66922
$51,600 current bid with BP
This item is ridiculous and just keeps climbing.
https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=64658
Shill bidding is the only thing driving these bogus prices.
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I think that's an incredibly disingenuous and cynical view.
Plot a few years' data points of PSA and BGS 2004 Panini Mega Cracks 71 Lionel Messi. You'll notice similar multipliers and trajectory as exhibited by Jordan, even if the decimal point is in a different spot. Then take a look at the figures again at the start of the next World Cup. For the most part, I'm holding them for the long term instead of selling, though I parted with 3 last year, which was a tough decision since I knew they had no where to go but up and I knew I could get more in the future for sure, but still, it much more than covered the acquisition costs of those plus the other ones I'm holding on to since I wouldn't be spending the money it would cost to replace anymore. I'm wondering if others here are doing the same with their Jordans, for those who own(ed) multiple?
Supposedly, the Stadion gold redemption cards were each limited to a print run of 100, though they are not serial numbered. For some reason, even though the rest of the gold redemption set seems to have good centering most of the time, the Jordan card is nearly always OC.
Can’t get over the Jordan 9 hammer last night. Over 11k with today’s PWCC bids already over 12k
Wtf !!
The Jordan card is taking off because of speculators its like a roll of toilet paper you could get 5 bucks for one roll now because everybody is hoarding toilet paper. The problem with prices going up by speculation is that the bubble bursts and the price drops just look at the Etopps cards. I am not saying that these Jordan cards will start to fall but the probability of them collapsing is definitely a real possibility. Remember even though the cards are going from $1,000 dollars to $5,000 dollars 99% of the people who have these cards are not selling them. Once everyone starts to sell to cash in the prices will drop like the Etopps cards. Also all it takes is for a few collectors to start buying and selling and manipulating the market then they cash out before the collapse it could be a organized scam by just a few people. The young people under 30 are very venerable to this type of scam old people like me its harder to do because we have been around and have seen these scams before not just with cards but everything. As long as people want to make money without working for it these types of scams will exist there is always someone out there that is willing to take advantage of someones greed.
Seems every person spewing negativity on the increase in card prices, etc has 25 or less posts....guess the old-timers have a lot to learn from this new breed
This is really an exciting time! The more people that get into this hobby the better.
Wha???? I guess my hearing is going bad...old age has gotten to me... let me tell you kids....just like I didn't know when I was your age....you don't know greatness when you see it and when you do realize it...it's too late cause the prices are out of site!
chaz
Don't agree at all...we're not talking about Greg Jeffries or Daryl Strawberry or Eric Davis etc...we're talking about the greatest basketball player whoever lived. I know I'm comparing baseball and basketball but you get the idea. Don't go senile on me old timer (from one old timer to another)...they said the same about 80 topps baseball (way overproduced) and last I checked it's $1800 a box. Rickey Henderson is no Jordan either...
These price levels are cheap.
chaz
I think long term trajectory for the 86 jordan will be solid, but this card is going to revert back just like it did a few years ago. We already know what price moves on this card look like. It won’t be different this time, and could be worse. Keep in mind it went up, and then quite a ways down between 2015 and 2019. And that was in a market with 4.5 % unemployment. I highly doubt it can hold these prices through 15% UE and a few quarters of recession. I am expecting the guys pumping the card to start dumping them in the next 6-12 months.
It will not reach previous lows when it corrects but it likely settles some where between prices today, and 2017 prices.
If anyone is interested in what pump and dump looks like on heavily traded cards, lots of examples to show you what to expect. There will be another good buying opportunity but it sure isn’t today.
Don't agree and don't hedge your opinion. Either say it's going up or going down. Long term these prices are cheap, you are blind...you're talking about the Greatest Basketball Player whoever lived. Like I said before, Jordan's cards are going up in rough times....are they going down in good times??? Give me a break. A lot of dense people on this board...when it comes to Jordan.
Prices are cheap at these levels.
chaz
@chaz43 well said
Brian
Listen I’m just offering an opinion, take it for what its worth. Not sure why you are so triggered.
This looks and feels like the tail end of a bubble. Seen this in RE ( RE goes up forever, remember that one? ) and in equities. Seen it in cards as well. We are in the euphoria phase of the bubble - no matter what the price, it is cheap and will only go higher. The dumb late money comes rushing in. Sound familiar?
Next stage is profit taking, with the smart money getting out.
Factor in economic conditions - which based on these posts people aren’t truly understanding the long term effects of 26mm unemployed- and you have an interesting few months ahead. I will be watching with lots of interest - who knows maybe cards are completely resistant to a massive drop in GDP and prices go up forever. That would be a first however.
Here is the good news, we can revisit in a 1/3/5 years and see where it all landed. No need to argue over it, I respect your opinion, just disagree.
Very reminiscent of the 2016 run this card took. My feeling is this is the peak and there will be a pull back on this just like the last run. Seems to be the track record for this card. Major rush up in price, hits number where many feel it is not sustainable, prices drop and reset a little higher than where they were at the start of the push. Rinse and repeat in a couple of years.
The Jordan market also tends to attract the most manipulation so big spikes like this on a widely available card will always bring a lot of skepticism. Even as a huge Jordan fan and collector I have debated moving my PSA 9 Fleer at these current prices.
Difference in 2016 was other cards had major temporary spikes. Ryan, Koufax RC others has major lifts with this buying group mentality. Not seeing that now, only with late 80’s product at least IMHO.
Other cards are seeing major spikes. Pippen has tripled, the Griffey has tripled. Difference this time is the pumping is spread out amongst sports. But it is 100% the same behaviour as 2016.
Next comes profit taking.
I’ve always thought basketball cards and to a little lessor degree Jordan has been undervalued the last decade and I’m glad to see that changing rapidly now.
I still think a star cards are the best value and I hope those explode to the same degree that the fleer cards are. Is this kind of move sustainable? Who cares even if it drops a little the prices will reset at a higher price and I’m sure go up again from there in the future who expects it to be in a straight line?
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Yes, 100%, however not seeing the spikes in older 50-60’s RC similar to 2016. That is the difference.
The Jordan card is like the Mantle card its in a class by itself so its always going to move on a upward trend but that means it is not immune to speculators and manipulators both will increase the price of the card but just temporally price increases that are because of speculation and manipulation always burst sooner or later and it has nothing to do with cards its a economic issue.
There you go again just comparing JORDAN to basic market fluctuations and hedging. Blind......
chaz