What's Driving Jordan RC Price Increases?

BriantheTaxGuy

Hi all,

It's been a while since I have looked into prices for this card. I have one in PSA 8 and when I last checked in December it was selling pretty consistently in the $2000-$2200 range. I just checked this evening and see they are now selling for $3500+ and a recent sale of $4400.

Has anyone else been tracking this? If I could get $4k for it now I would be a very motivated seller.

Thanks!

chaz43

He is the BEST that's why for starters. Demand is going up in spite of everything. People keep ripping boxes and packs chasing his cards & insert cards so there is less supply. It is simple supply and demand. It's like Mantle , Gretzky etc

chaz

jay0791

I think BK in general is very hot and going up.

dennis07

"The last Dance" has been moved up to April 19 by ESPN. IT's creating a lot of Jordan buzz.

Vagabond

I also agree that the documentary being announced and released soon has part to do with it. And as someone mentioned - he’s Michael Jordan.

By last years National, they were selling for around 29-30K on average. Today, they sell in the 40K range. And the last two have sold for 48 and 45 respectively. Even if prices did cool down, I can’t see this one at 38K and below ever again.

What’s funny is that I still remember when these just hit the 10K mark back around 2012/3 year and I simply thought that was insanity. What did I know lol

You want a Jordan 9, they look like they are about 8K now. That’s just nutty. Especially when they were about 6K back in January. I’ll guess the documentary will continue to spike up even more interest amongst collectors so I am expecting to see more of a price raise in the next month or two.

Dpeck100

There was a great Andre The Giant documentary and I feel his collectibles began moving up after it aired.

I would imagine the Jordan documentary will bring his name front and center again and could certainly create some interest.

The 86 Fleer Jordan is the most iconic cards from the 80's and Jordan may be the most popular living athlete.

It is a great photo and he looks like a game changing star in it.

Longer term I just don't see how his cards don't keep going up.

frankhardy

I have tracked a PSA 8 quite some time. I bought mine 2 years ago for $1,600 and I am pleasantly surprised at the increase. I also have a PSA 7 sticker. I looked it up a few weeks ago and it was selling for about $400. I just now looked up a PSA 7 sticker and they are going for $700 up to $825. I was stunned.

Here is my PSA 8.

frankhardy

I just took a quick picture of my PSA 7 sticker. I forgot how nicely centered it was. Probstein's PSA 7 that sold for $825 was off centered.

Here is mine.

balco758

I feel blessed to own a 9. Got it for $3,900 just over a year ago.

Love some feedback on the left to right centering though for a 9. I probably look at it too much but it bugs me a little bit.

nam812

Disclaimer: My measuring skills and opinions are unprofessional.

Your PSA 9 Jordan is 43/57* on the top just above the blue, and 41/59* on the bottom just below the blue.

*Please see disclaimer

dan89

Mine has one little print in the blue box. Like the centering, image and crispness. It should have a bit of a rough cut. Card is very desirable, coupled with the image is so cool and Jordan exudes coolness. Paid about the same two years ago as above. Think it might be a 9.5 if there was one!!

BriantheTaxGuy

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

I had forgotten they moved up the documentary. It sounds like now might be the best time to move my 8.

doubledragon

As mentioned multiple times throughout this thread, the documentary definately has alot to do with it , and the fact that Michael Jordan changed sports forever. He did things no other player could do. To watch him play was to watch poetry in motion. He was a master of the most difficult shot in basketball, the turn around fade away, and the things he did on the court were just ridiculous. He HATED to lose more than anyone I've ever seen, and even played a game with the flu just to make sure the Bulls won. They'll never be another Michael Jordan. Nobody can do it like Jordan did.

AANV

Buyer's Club COVID-19 Edition

frankhardy

rtimmer

I think the documentary will do for his card prices what the 30 for 30 did for Bo’s card prices. If you think they’ve got up a lot now just wait until it Aires.

frankhardy

An off centered PSA 8 just sold for a hair under $4k.

olb31

I would assume a number of these power sales, are dealer to dealer. Or they just don't get paid for. I spoke with an EBAY rep about two years ago about some issues I was having with my account, so while I was sitting there, I asked her how prevalent non-payment was. She said it happens some. So I actually asked about a specific seller, and right off the cuff she said they were the worst for not being paid. I.E. essentially they were bidding up auctions, acting like certain items were selling for a certain amount and then relisting the item and trying to sell it for somewhere near the amount that was bid up in the previous auction. I found it amazing that the lady knew them by name without hesitation. So, unless you list an item and actually sell it, I would take a lot of sells with a grain of salt.

BriantheTaxGuy

@olb31 said:
I would assume a number of these power sales, are dealer to dealer. Or they just don't get paid for. I spoke with an EBAY rep about two years ago about some issues I was having with my account, so while I was sitting there, I asked her how prevalent non-payment was. She said it happens some. So I actually asked about a specific seller, and right off the cuff she said they were the worst for not being paid. I.E. essentially they were bidding up auctions, acting like certain items were selling for a certain amount and then relisting the item and trying to sell it for somewhere near the amount that was bid up in the previous auction. I found it amazing that the lady knew them by name without hesitation. So, unless you list an item and actually sell it, I would take a lot of sells with a grain of salt.

So your statement is sellers are willing to eat eBay fees for sales not going through by shill bidding? Then listing it again and paying the fee a second time?

I have trouble believing any large percentage of sales happening on eBay are of this variety.

olb31

@BriantheTaxGuy said:

@olb31 said:
I would assume a number of these power sales, are dealer to dealer. Or they just don't get paid for. I spoke with an EBAY rep about two years ago about some issues I was having with my account, so while I was sitting there, I asked her how prevalent non-payment was. She said it happens some. So I actually asked about a specific seller, and right off the cuff she said they were the worst for not being paid. I.E. essentially they were bidding up auctions, acting like certain items were selling for a certain amount and then relisting the item and trying to sell it for somewhere near the amount that was bid up in the previous auction. I found it amazing that the lady knew them by name without hesitation. So, unless you list an item and actually sell it, I would take a lot of sells with a grain of salt.

So your statement is sellers are willing to eat eBay fees for sales not going through by shill bidding? Then listing it again and paying the fee a second time?

I have trouble believing any large percentage of sales happening on eBay are of this variety.

If no one pays there are no fees. So, you auction a 1965 Mantle psa 8. It get bids up to $4,000 and someone wins. But no one ever pays, so the transacation never really happens. Got to collect the payment before fees happen.

frankhardy

@olb31 said:

@BriantheTaxGuy said:

@olb31 said:
I would assume a number of these power sales, are dealer to dealer. Or they just don't get paid for. I spoke with an EBAY rep about two years ago about some issues I was having with my account, so while I was sitting there, I asked her how prevalent non-payment was. She said it happens some. So I actually asked about a specific seller, and right off the cuff she said they were the worst for not being paid. I.E. essentially they were bidding up auctions, acting like certain items were selling for a certain amount and then relisting the item and trying to sell it for somewhere near the amount that was bid up in the previous auction. I found it amazing that the lady knew them by name without hesitation. So, unless you list an item and actually sell it, I would take a lot of sells with a grain of salt.

So your statement is sellers are willing to eat eBay fees for sales not going through by shill bidding? Then listing it again and paying the fee a second time?

I have trouble believing any large percentage of sales happening on eBay are of this variety.

If no one pays there are no fees. So, you auction a 1965 Mantle psa 8. It get bids up to $4,000 and someone wins. But no one ever pays, so the transacation never really happens. Got to collect the payment before fees happen.

If that happens then eBay should take away those listings in the sold / completed category so that people can research properly.

Also I wish eBay would go back to the days where you could see how much a best offer listing sold for.

olb31

Frank,

This is true and why you can't believe Ebay sells prices all the time. It only takes two people to manipulate a certain card. Shill bid and don't pay, but the auction has a final sell price. I have advocated EBAY to change the color of a sale that hasn't been paid for to go to say Red until it's paid for, so everyone knows what's going on. They listened but never did anything about it. Boy would this suggestion change a lot of things, huh.?

If you see where I sold a card for a certain price it's 100% correct. For some other sellers, it's correct some times.

chaz43

I saw Jordan play back in 96' during Iverson's rookie year in Philly, I still have the ticket stub. One of the most incredible things I ever saw IN MY LIFETIME was during warm up he get's the ball so EFFORTLESSLY (that was the thing that amazed me, just so smooth and so EFFORTLESS) and FLOATED to the rim DOING A REVERSE LAYUP OFF THE GLASS AND IN WITH HIS HEAD A LITTLE ABOVE THE RIM...SO EFFORTLESSLY!!!! that's what AMAZED ME AND I SAID TO MYSELF "NOW I UNDERSTAND, THAT'S WHY THEY CALL HIM AIR JORDAN"!!! ...not to mention when Iverson tried his patented crossover and MJ knocked the ball into the stands!!! And every time he touched the ball a million flash bulbs went off and that's another thing I will never forget.

PSA 10 !!! chaz

erikthredd

Anyone else noticing that Jordan's 87 Fleer sticker in a PSA 9 has taken a decent bump up in price recently? End of 2019 they were selling in the $300-400 range now they're up over $500 and the last two sales were $589 & $805(this one was probstein.) Even PSA 8's are selling close to triple what they were just going for in January.

Vagabond

@erikthredd said:
Anyone else noticing that Jordan's 87 Fleer sticker in a PSA 9 has taken a decent bump up in price recently? End of 2019 they were selling in the $300-400 range now they're up over $500 and the last two sales were $589 & $805(this one was probstein.) Even PSA 8's are selling close to triple what they were just going for in January.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure people notice. Hence: This thread.

erikthredd

@Vagabond said:

@erikthredd said:
Anyone else noticing that Jordan's 87 Fleer sticker in a PSA 9 has taken a decent bump up in price recently? End of 2019 they were selling in the $300-400 range now they're up over $500 and the last two sales were $589 & $805(this one was probstein.) Even PSA 8's are selling close to triple what they were just going for in January.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure people notice. Hence: This thread.

It surprised me and I own one. Last time I checked sold prices on his PSA 9 2nd yr sticker they were selling in the 200-250 range and 300 was considered a great sale. I'm not sure that I believe that $805 probstein sale was legit.

2dueces

Here's mine. The sticker is dead on 50/50.

2dueces

All you Jordan collectors. I need an idea of what these are worth today. I had them graded long before Beckett graded Star.

2dueces

BPorter26

@rtimmer said:
I think the documentary will do for his card prices what the 30 for 30 did for Bo’s card prices. If you think they’ve got up a lot now just wait until it Aires.

Timmer, that was my first thought as well about Bo cards and how they skyrocketed after the 30/30. You will see a huge spike, but what goes up will come down. I believe his rookie cards will come back to what they were selling a month ago, by the middle or towards the end of summer. If you want to sell , then you can probably repurchase the card and have nothing into it. I love odd ball cards especially of MJ.

Here's a couple that I have.

erikthredd

@2dueces After looking at recent ebay sold prices I'd honestly say you're looking at around these prices below:
Best Of The New CSA 9: Likely in the $150-250 range. Slightly more than some raw prices but less than BGS 9 have sold for.
Best of the Best CSA 8: Likely in the $150-200 range. Same reason as above but less than BGS 8 prices.
All-Rookie Team CSA 8: Likely in the $200-300 range. Same reason as above but less than BGS 8 prices.

If you're definitely committed to selling them now then I'd just list each on the higher end of the prices above with a best offer option and go from there. If there aren't any offers you can always just lower your asking price. If those three are PC items then I'd recommend maybe having them graded by BGS instead at some point in the future.

DM23HOF

@olb31 said:
I would assume a number of these power sales, are dealer to dealer. Or they just don't get paid for. I spoke with an EBAY rep about two years ago about some issues I was having with my account, so while I was sitting there, I asked her how prevalent non-payment was. She said it happens some. So I actually asked about a specific seller, and right off the cuff she said they were the worst for not being paid. I.E. essentially they were bidding up auctions, acting like certain items were selling for a certain amount and then relisting the item and trying to sell it for somewhere near the amount that was bid up in the previous auction. I found it amazing that the lady knew them by name without hesitation. So, unless you list an item and actually sell it, I would take a lot of sells with a grain of salt.

This is spot on.

The deeper I have gotten into this hobby over the years, the more I learned and realized how many fake sales are created on eBay especially.

It is far too easy for the unscrupulous out there to create a fake data point, in hopes that it "sticks" or "takes," or at least becomes a precedent/comp that can be cited. They hope people see a new high sale and become willing to either pay that price or at least pay a lot more relative to prior prices, in some perceived bargain.

It is impossible to quantify the amount of bogus sales data out there, or to quantify the impact that shilling and fake sales have upon actual real sales.

Another prevalent tactic is collusion to raise asks and BINs, which creates an elevated optic to buyers.

I guess end of the day it is incumbent upon the individual collector to decide if he's comfortable with any piece/price.

PS that film strip Jordan card is a such a cool looking piece.

2dueces

@erikthredd said:
@2dueces After looking at recent ebay sold prices I'd honestly say you're looking at around these prices below:
Best Of The New CSA 9: Likely in the $150-250 range. Slightly more than some raw prices but less than BGS 9 have sold for.
Best of the Best CSA 8: Likely in the $150-200 range. Same reason as above but less than BGS 8 prices.
All-Rookie Team CSA 8: Likely in the $200-300 range. Same reason as above but less than BGS 8 prices.

If you're definitely committed to selling them now then I'd just list each on the higher end of the prices above with a best offer option and go from there. If there aren't any offers you can always just lower your asking price. If those three are PC items then I'd recommend maybe having them graded by BGS instead at some point in the future.

Eric, Thanks for the reply. I have no plans to sell but never see CSA listed anywhere any longer. My Fleer Rookie I won in pack wars, the Sticker was a bonus and I think I have maybe $60 in the 3 Star cards + grading fees for all. Not a bad ROR.

Dpeck100

This sticker looks really strong .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353045862767?_trksid=p2471758.m4704

Kep13

not just his rookies going crazy...many of his early 90's cards have doubled in PSA 10...I have 3 of the 1997 Metal Universe classic cards at PSA currently...plus I have about 300 other Jordan cards I need to get graded from the late 80's-early 90's....of course, I won't have them in PSA holders until late this year, so we'll see where the Jordan hysteria is come December

This card was going for under $300 a couple weeks ago

https://ebay.com/itm/1997-Metal-Universe-Michael-Jordan-PSA-9-23/133385512475?hash=item1f0e65661b:g:CXUAAOSwS51ekk~W

80sOPC

Right, so those Metals were selling at 300 for a while, some sale that is impossible to validate sells for 1k? I don’t care if feedback was left, that is an example of the BS that is plaguing the hobby.

Kep if you have 3 of these, there are probably guys with 30 of them. You pay the fees on the 1k card and wait for the sheep to gobble up your cards at the new price. Voila, 100 bucks in fees and your other 30 are magically worth 18k more.

Man I love the hobby but this garbage is so obvious and I can’t wait until the bottom falls out.

Question for the board - is it possible for a NPB to leave feedback, and vice versa? I haven’t sold for a few years and am wondering if there is a way for a sale to never compete and feedback to be left. Because I hear people say “feedback left, sale is legit “ and my BS sensor goes wild.

Dpeck100

The big sellers usually have auto feedback on and left once paid.

Feedback can be left and the card returned and the feedback stays.

If there were as many fake sales as people are concerned about you would think the cards would be relisted.

The last two 52 Mantle 8’s were bad auctions according to internet experts. First one Brady Hill claimed the win and the second one you saw the low feedback winners feedback go up and the card not resurface in their future auctions.

erikthredd

@Kep13 said:
not just his rookies going crazy...many of his early 90's cards have doubled in PSA 10...I have 3 of the 1997 Metal Universe classic cards at PSA currently...plus I have about 300 other Jordan cards I need to get graded from the late 80's-early 90's....of course, I won't have them in PSA holders until late this year, so we'll see where the Jordan hysteria is come December

This card was going for under $300 a couple weeks ago

https://ebay.com/itm/1997-Metal-Universe-Michael-Jordan-PSA-9-23/133385512475?hash=item1f0e65661b:g:CXUAAOSwS51ekk~W

His 93 Scoring Kings is another that just jumped in price out of nowhere whether it was raw or in any grade. I listed my PSA 8 up at what I thought was a silly price,three times more than sold prices from two weeks ago, and it was bought & paid for two minutes after listing it. His 2nd & 3rd year Fleer cards/stickers have all bumped in price too. 8's now selling very close to what 9's were recently selling for, 2nd year 9's now reaching 1K, PSA 9 stickers just under it.

KingBen

Shill bidding and unnatural hype...

80sOPC

The Mantles you reference are outliers. Much harder to shill or manipulate small volume / rare cards, but you know this. Dpeck you are the master of taking an outlier - PSA 8 Haystacks Calhouns setting a new high for instance - and drawing some sort of parallel to the broader market.

The card we were discussing is a fairly common 300 dollar card all of a sudden selling for 1k. Does that make sense to you? That a card that could be had yesterday for 300 is now snapped up at 1k in a BIN?

Also, the buyers group which was ridiculed here was clearly a real thing. Look at prices of WIDELY traded vintage cards from 2016 to present. Key rookies were manipulated to the max and some have still not reached late 2016 heights, even in a massive credit bubble from 2017-20. Look at the PWC 2500 index to see how much BS was going on.

Believe what you want but the number of fake, record setting sales of widely traded cards is IMO enormous. Most collectors that are dialled in and collect broadly like DM23HOF will tell you same. This isn’t an outlier opinion, it is widely known.

There are zero checks and balances, and the hobby is polluted with shysters. High end Mantles will be fine, and I’m sure the 20 guys that collect wresting will continue to buy, but the number of widely traded cards being manipulated is enormous.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight, what I collect is rare/scarce and is not coming down (or up) in price. I am not hoping for the market to implode but I’m sick of all the shenanigans and hope for a new normal soon.

Dpeck100

You are right I am the master of outliers. I guess you can't take any sale seriously.

Yes I remain bullish. I think the card market is in an uptrend and I am fine taking that position publicly.

addicted2ebay

Whatever it is it feels like 2016 all over again!

They only want graded tho, I listed some authentic raw jordan rookies and stickers and they won’t sell.

Dpeck100

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=66922

REA has a fractional issue with clients not paying.

This Jordan 10 is now at $42,000.

Don't be shocked if this sets a record.

maddux69

The hype might be driving that one up as there a better looking 10s out there with nice, clean edges.

Dpeck100

@maddux69 said:
The hype might be driving that one up as there a better looking 10s out there with nice, clean edges.

I don’t know what’s driving it but remember the card market is supposed to be crashing.

maddux69

There was a time when these were affordable. Now it seems that many must choose between one or the other. I had a BGS 9 at one point, sold it and regretted that decision so I purchased this one. Yes, it is not as nice but I prefer the PSA oversized holder to the BGS(too bulky IMO). The issue with this one lies in the "H" of Chicago and that is a scratch on the case visible. Those don't bother me at all and it will stay in my collection!

addicted2ebay

4K for psa 9 86 stickers ... it’s amazing

JWBlue

A lot of young franchise players in the game right now with high prices.

People must be thinking, "If this ZIon, Luca card is selling for X then Jordan's should be worth more."

Also could be the case of a lot of new collectors from that era are coming back to the hobby.

80sOPC

For the record I never said you can’t take ANY sale seriously. I suggested that some of the widely traded cards are being price manipulated. Jordan cards fall into that category and a few other prominent collectors have weighed in on this thread and agree.

Your position seems to be that every sale is legit based which in my opinion is pretty naive based on all we know about buying groups, AH shenanigans, etc.

@Dpeck100 said:
You are right I am the master of outliers. I guess you can't take any sale seriously.

Yes I remain bullish. I think the card market is in an uptrend and I am fine taking that position publicly.

80sOPC

Isn’t it at least possible that the REA sale price might be tied to a previous new high that was never paid?

Thats the whole premise here, you have a card that is traded fairly regularly, a fake sale occurs - usually on Ebay, where there is no over-site to set a new high - and the card then beats that high at an AH and the new price is locked in.

This was the MO for some of the high end baseball rookies that gained immensely from 2012-16 until prices fell apart. I don’t have VCP anymore but I remember cards like Rose RC’s making huge gains and then one day there weren’t any buyers left at the manipulated prices. This all shows up in the PWCC indexes and I suspect the same thing is happening with 86 Jordans.

Doesn’t mean all cards or even the broader market is crashing, the hobby seems to be healthy. But there is no doubt in my mind that some of the key cards in the hobby and being manipulated, it is too easy, and there is too much profit to think otherwise.

@Dpeck100 said:

@maddux69 said:
The hype might be driving that one up as there a better looking 10s out there with nice, clean edges.

I don’t know what’s driving it but remember the card market is supposed to be crashing.

stwainfan

The 87 and 88 cards are going up also.