Guess the grade on my 1921 peace dollar, The grade has been revealed
SilverProofQuarter1883
Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭
Have bean looking for the right one for over a year and this is the one
**Veiwes beware, there is a dark spot that have toned darker over time since the true view was made. Still a great coin👍 **
## Au 58
Thanks for guessing 👍👍👍👍👍
6
Comments
MS64.
64 sounds about right, and very attractive!
I like it. I don't see evidence of circulation in the fields, but it looks like the high points might have some slight rub- but this is a 21 and are never fully struck and often have that sort of look. That said, this one does have a pretty good strike.
I'll go 63 due to the marks and what may be subdued luster on the high points, but I have to keep in mind that I have a 64 that looks much worse than this one.
Collector, occasional seller
I'm terrible with these Peace dollars, I'll say MS63
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I am on the fence between 62 and 63....Nice looking Peace...Cheers, RickO
Nice coin 64.
MS63
My YouTube Channel
I'll be the first. I say 65 minimum.
Clean 21'!
100% Positive BST transactions
I see what chris is talking about. I will go AU.... hope I am wrong and the others are right
64.
MS65 Beautiful
I'm with the consensus at 64. Edited to add: It's a very attractive one!
Can't anyone look up the TV# and get the grade?
If that is the case, I'd like to know the WHY a certain grade was picked. There is a difference between AU, 63, 64, and 65. The AU guessers gave a reason for their opinion.
Why did someone grade this 64 and someone grade this 65? How about some help here. Why did you assign the grade you did? Otherwise it is just an "opinion" w/o back up and we all have them. I'll play that way. I guess MS-68! Thanks
I'll guess 64, I think the marks on the face hold it back from 65. Looks like nice luster and I like that "dusty gray" look.
I'm with the 63 crowd. Hair is a little soft to overlook the nicks on the cheek and chin.
Yes anyone can. For the sake of a GTG just don't cheat.
A little story I have about a 1921 Peace purchase of mine:
I bought an anacs MS63 off the bay that looked pretty nice based on the picture, it was an open auction and I got a decent price on it. Once I got it I actually debated sending it back since it had an "AU look", the high points were brighter than the rest of the coin and the luster was just ok. Well, fast forward a year or so, I decide to crack it out and see if MS70 would improve its look by removing whatever was on the surface, I did not dip it. Well it worked, the q-tip became a dingy brown and the coin turned a 180 and was bright with original luster and any "rub look" that was due to irregular surface color was gone! I decided to send it in to PCGS and it graded 64. The strangest thing though, as I was getting my submission ready to ship, the seller who I bought it from sent me a message on ebay asking if I had any plans to sell it because he sort of regretted selling it.
I won't post a picture here since this is a GTG thread but I think I've posted it in the past.
Collector, occasional seller
58 or 65. Not too many hits, but the luster does not look beaming
Fine, I’ll guess MS64. And my reasons are that a I don’t see wear, the strike and luster are more than adequate and other than a few distracting obverse hits, the surfaces are quite clean.
But your comment “The AU guessers gave a reason for their opinion.” is somewhat unfair.
Because it’s much easier to articulate a reason for grading a coin AU than it is for grading it any particular grade of 60 or higher.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Should a little strike weakness on a coin that is usually missing hair details drop a coin from a 64 to a 63?
I’ll answer that - not in the world of commercial coin grading. And if the subject coin graded 63 or less, I’m confident that it wasn’t due to the strike.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Very hard to tell as these tend to be weakly struck, rub may not be clear; I have had a lot of these with more 'character', ie better strike and honest field chatter.
I'm in for a 64 but love it regardless.
--Severian the Lame
More hits for you guys, the sellers instagram luster video
He is the guy who sold me the coin 👍
Got rid of the video since it kinda gave away the answer
Why would you hope you are wrong? This wasn't a coin submission- it is a purchase. I truly hope this Peace dollar IS an AU58 as it would be among the finest looking Peace dollars for the grade out there.
psst... that gives away the answer
Collector, occasional seller
Ow no, I will remove it
I guessed 64 because it looked better than 63 and worse than 65...................................
(waits for laughter to die down)
The coin is probably clean enough for 65 (nicks on the portrait notwithstanding) but doesn't appear to have enough luster for gem. There is a bit of shine at the highest points, which could indicate AU (along with color variations in the fields), but I gave it the benefit of the doubt based on overall appearance. Please mail me a gold star for showing my work, Teach!
@MFeld said: "...your comment “The AU guessers gave a reason for their opinion.” is somewhat unfair. Because it’s much easier to articulate a reason for grading a coin AU than it is for grading it any particular grade of 60 or higher."
Great Big disagree because IMO:
It is much easier to grade a MS coin than an AU or lower.
It is very easy to determine the AU/MS line when commercial standards and other "fluff" is ignored.
There are certain attributes that make up a MS grade. I find that the more knowledgeable graders CANNOT delineate each one by degree BECAUSE they are way past that. They look at the coin and spit out the grade. It is like pulling teeth to get a direct answer to a question. Example: Two coins with IDENTICAL, MEASURABLE depth of mirror. Show the "expert" and ask why only one is DMPL and the answer is "Because I say so!"
That's why the best graders are not the best teachers. In a class setting, students would see the OP's coin AND THEN be required to address each of its attributes both good and bad. IMO, they learn more when the 63 and 64 opinion + the reasons are discussed.
Does my request/approach take the fun out of GTG? YES. Does it take more time than many have? YES.
Would it be helpful for the "lurkers" who are too afraid to post? YES.
A nice coin. I like it.
You just gave a “big disagree” to something I didn’t even say.
I said nothing about whether it was easier to grade a coin Unc. vs. AU. I said it was “much easier to articulate a reason for grading a coin AU than it is for grading it any particular grade of 60 or higher”.
Example: “I grade this 1921 Peace Dollar AU58 because I see a trace of rub”. That’s much easier than saying what I did previously, in guessing, MS64: “I’ll guess MS64. And my reasons are that a I don’t see wear, the strike and luster are more than adequate and other than a few distracting obverse hits, the surfaces are quite clean.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said: "You just gave a “big disagree” to something I didn’t even say. I said nothing about whether it was easier to grade a coin Unc. vs. AU. I said it was “much easier to articulate a reason for grading a coin AU than it is for grading it any particular grade of 60 or higher”.
Agree, I thought that was understood in my comment. Thanks for the clarification for anyone who I confused by not being specific. It is AU because it shows wear. Easy. Also easier to grade because of this fact.
Not wear, rub. Rub = AU58. Wear = AU55 or lower.
I cheated and looked it up. Another example of why grading based on a photo is fruitless for the most point. Lovely coin.
I don’t think it’s as precise as you made it out to be.
I believe that “rub” can be synonymous with a trace of “wear”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’ll guess 64+ I think the hits on the cheek and chin keep it fro a 65.
Looks 63/64.....at least on luster, eye appeal, strike. The "rub" thing is a harder question. One lone grading event never truly defines the coin's actual grade. That's just the starting point.
On weakly struck coins like a '21 Peace Dollar, it can be close to impossible with the naked eye to discern strike from wear at the 58-64 range. Even more difficult if you choose to determine whether such rub is bag friction or circulation friction. CBH's and $20's have similar issues......where the vast majority of 58-64 coins all have some form of "rub or friction." Technical rub can easily be merged into the "market acceptable" grade.
In the 64 group. Peace Dollars especially the 21 are tough for me.
I’m at 64 too
Collector
91 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 56 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
LOL, only in your mind!
63
@roadrunner said: "On weakly struck coins like a '21 Peace Dollar, it can be close to impossible with the naked eye to discern strike from wear at the 58-64 range. Even more difficult if you choose to determine whether such rub is bag friction or circulation friction. CBH's and $20's have similar issues......where the vast majority of 58-64 coins all have some form of "rub or friction." Technical rub can easily be merged into the "market acceptable" grade."
I disagree that weak strike and rub are difficult to discern w/the naked eye (except perhaps in an image). The two look completely different. The condition of the coin's surface is what you need to look at. Anyone can learn to tell the difference. It helps if you are nearsighted. use FLUORESCENT light, and have studied the surfaces of coins for a few hours while using a stereo scope with fluorescent light.
Weakly struck areas have a specific type of original luster that is different from the original luster on the rest of the coin. Any loss of original surface due to rub or "stacking" is different from either of these original surfaces.
After reading all the comments I did go ahead and cheat and look up the answer. This is an interesting GTG @Markelman!
I'm not going to guess on this one because when I get it correct I'll be accused of CHEATING!!
I want to read the reasons folks have picked a certain grade.
63+
It's tough to grade AU-58 Vs. MS63 without the coin in hand. Rotating the coin in light will show the luster breaks on a high end AU coin much easier than a photo.
Too late, you already guessed: “...I guess MS-68! Thanks“
😄
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That proves I'm not a cheater!
Ah the perils of grading in one dimension
If this is a 64 I won’t be surprised. Limiting marks, subdued lustre. It’s not a 65
If this is a 58 I won’t be surprised ( too hard to tell if there is rub)
If it’s anything else but a 64 or 58 I will be surprised
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
...........which is exactly what we are presented with here....a photograph.
And in looking at weakly struck AU/MS seated and bust coins for 45 yrs....the difference in strike vs. rub is negligible. There is often little to no mint luster on flatly struck areas. And if if toning now covers the weakly struck area, even harder. You really can't tell. Which is why I grade the open fields of the coin, other high points and the flat rims for other clues. If those other areas are covered in luster almost certainly the coin is mint state. In fact, I've always had a problem with 19th century type coins not having luster on the rims (from handling rub and wear) yet still be graded MS. Why waste your time trying to interpret a totally inconsistent part of the coin (weak areas) when the other 90-95% of the coin will give better clues?