1964 Peace Master Die Discovered in Philly Mint Vault
RichR
Posts: 3,930 ✭✭✭✭✭
Apologies if this was already discussed:
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/master-die-exists-at-philadelphia-mint-for-1964-peace-dollar
I found this to be particularly cool...and you just know that some of those coins were not returned and still exist!
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Comments
Personally, I always liked the Peace design more than other people. As a kid, I liked it because many of the dates were much cheaper to collect on a budget...and the series was short...so it could be completed.
Obviously the Morgan is a more beautiful coin overall, But I always thought the Peace was the Art Deco of coins, with a more spare design, stripped down without all the berries, leaves and flourishes of the Morgan.
Interesting. I see they have the obverse die. I am wondering just how long before the reverse turns up. For what it's worth at this point
I didn't see this story. I like it ... It might get the mint to thinking.
Interesting article, Thanks for the link. I wonder why the mint figures and Roger Burdette's figures for coins struck differ by 6,318 pieces?? That, plus the belief that mint employees had been able to have some before the edict to melt was issued, indicates more than enough leeway for these to exist. They are out there.....
Cheers, RickO
From an artistic viewpoint, I consider the Peace Dollar to be more attractive than the Morgan Dollar. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I almost like the design, but the one thing that always bothered me about Liberty is her lower jaw - it is not developed appropriately and is overly small, though not hypoplastic which gives her a bit of a goofy look when looked at closely. She would not be able to close her mouth and she also needs some real lips. Otherwise looks to be a cousin of the Liberty on St. Gaudens' $10 Indian.
Well, just Love coins, period.
She has the same expression on her face as a blow-up sex doll.
My Saint Set
Liberty on the Morgan dollar looks too much like a guy not unlike Liberty on the Barber series.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
We'll have to take your word for it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Holy moly it references Daniel Carr’s in the article! Thank you!
this is a really nice part of a great Numismatic mystery that will no doubt cause collectors to further insist that the coins exist. personally, I have never been in that group and figure all this shows is that coins were struck, but we already know that. the most surprising thing to come from this thread is the knowledge that RickO believes they are yet to be found and do in fact exist.
I suspect that 1964-D Peace Dollars are as common as Chupacabras, BigFoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause. they are, however, much less common than extraterrestrials.
Who knows what lies in storage, in government coffers ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Muldeeeeeeeeeeer!
That article is beyond cool. The author covered all the bases with attributions to what amounts to a "Who's Who" of United States' Peace Dollars:
Q. David Bowers
Roger W. Burdette
John Dannreuther
By the way, looking forward to the return of Roger to postings here on this forum along with Bruce (TDN - who is hopefully well on his way to recovering from the Coronavirus.)
I know this has been discussed but is the claim that they never got out, or that all were turned in? I know there are still a few dealers alive, that I trust, that claim to have seen one.
Interesting comment to the article in case any missed it:
If no example(s) existed, how is it then that Walter Breen described seeing one? He noted that the one he seen had a RPM (RePunched Mintmark). To know this information it is reasonable to assume that Mr. Breen seen something. I could go on to to Mr. Breens credability in his research but I am sure many in Coin World already know. It is also notable that is an earlier publication from Coin World, at least one of the employees who received an example(s) stated that he could NOT return the example as he bought a beer on his way home from work using the example to pay for it. There is no record of that example being returned or confiscated to date in any publication that I am aware of. Bottom line, at least one example should exist outside the mint. (Robert Lawson)
That is one sexy die and design.
--Severian the Lame
Spoken from experience?
The Coin World article quotes the Mint as saying that no obverse working dies exist. In this earlier thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12560662#Comment_12560662
I mentioned that the Mint's archives contain one obverse hub and three obverse dies, and that based upon the shanks of the dies I thought that one was a Master Die. I still think that the other two are Working Dies, but I could be wrong. They could be Master Dies that were trimmed differently for some reason.
I have not handled these various hubs and dies. My observations are based solely upon a number of photographs of the various 1964 Morgan and Peace dollar dies as found in a drawer at the Mint, provided to me by a member of the original archaeological team that found them. I am not at liberty to publish the photos.
TD
Without the reverse die, we still can't be sure if Breen's description was accurate.
I do not know why the numbers disagree. That said, the difference could represent coins sat aside for the Assay Commission or for informal quick testing of their composition, or spoiled coins. In my study of the 1922-D cents I have an official number struck that is higher than the official number released. The difference is spoiled coins thrown back into the pot and other coins not released for various reasons.
As to their existence, or not, we do not "know" that any exist OR that none exist. We only know that they were made.
TD
@keets ....and others here... The reason I believe at least one '64D Peace Dollar exists is because when I lived in Seattle, Russ told me that he knew/saw one that a person he knew owned. I myself have never seen one, but Russ was not prone to gossip....I believed him then and have no reason to change my opinion. Cheers, RickO
that is classic "Urban Legend" material which is where this coin belongs, as an Urban Myth. they may or may not exist and most of the lore about them comes from our wanting to believe they are out there.
let's work on the assumption that one coin or even 10 coins exist. I believe the open market would value it/them higher than those 1933 Saints, so there is incentive to cash that pay check. all the hard work was done by the Langabord Family and I would expect that any competent attorney could counsel an owner on what to do and who to do it with, maybe the attorneys who have already been in battle with our Uncle over the Saints.
imagination is a wonderful thing and much needed in this Hobby which is typically driven by greed. they may exist as TD said, I just don't believe so.