Who devised the Net Grading System?
Insider2
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Sheldon formulated the Sheldon Grading System. AFAIK, Brown & Dunn formulated their grading system. James Ruddy (perhaps with the help of Bowers?) formulated the original Photograde system.
I wish to know the name of the person or names of the group of numismatists who devised Net Grading. He/she/they must have been associated with the EAC at some time. They deserve their due recognition for this contribution.
Anyone here know the date Net grading was first proposed for copper coins. Were Half cents included in the beginning?
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Half cents were not included. Sheldon collected large cents. I think he first published his scale (originally conceived for 1794 coins, and then expanded to other early date cents) around 1948-1949. However, problems became evident within a few years. His 1-70 scale, as I recall, was a surrogate for price in dollars at that time.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Thanks for your post; however, this discussion is about "Net Grading."
AFAIK, There is no indication of "Net Grading" in Sheldon. Net grading was not associated with the original and "true" Technical Grading System used for internal records at the ANA's Authentication Service and ONLY by the personal employed in DC EITHER. The developer of the Technical Grading System used the Sheldon System as a starting point and refined it.
The key to the true Technical Grading System is this from Sheldon: "_In describing VF coins, the cataloguer is expected to list all dents, flaws, blemishes, and distractions_,..." Sheldon did not recommend the cataloger lower the VF to a Fine. LOL, that would be stupid. Simply grade the coin and list the modifiers (BOTH GOOD AND BAD)!
GRADE THE COIN FOR ITS CONDITION OF PRESERVATION and list any distractions! What use would a system be to ID a coin when it was lost or seen again IF IT WAS NET GRADED!
Think of the folly. A collector is robbed of his XF 1793 Chain cent with some scratches and rim nicks and the detective is told to look for a VF! LOL.
Thanks @Sonorandesertrat,
I changed the title. I originally wanted to know about two different grading systems but decided to post about only one at a time. This is only about Net grading.
JA perhaps? With the cacs?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Since you disagree with net grading,, I think you might be looking for something.
The first place I remember reading about it was in Brown & Dunn, third edition, I think. It was in the 1960s. There they suggested that the sharpness grade be reduced to the next lower grade for moderate problems. For greater problems, it comes down more. That involves judgment and “gut calls.”
Grading is mainly for pricing and then for condition census rankings. It serves a necessary purpose for those who are considering buying or pricing a problem coin. Every dealer encounters them and had to do something with them. Collectors get asked about them. It’s a necessary part of the business or hobby.
The proper way to approach it is to give the sharpness grade, the nature of the problem, and a net grade opinion. That’s what often done in EAC circles.
Thanks Bill!!! That's a start. I'll research this: "The first place I remember reading about it was in Brown & Dunn, third edition, I think. It was in the 1960s. There they suggested that the sharpness grade be reduced to the next lower grade for moderate problems. For greater problems, it comes down more. That involves judgment and “gut calls.”
Now this does not sound so bad: "The proper way to approach it is to give the sharpness grade, the nature of the problem, and a net grade opinion. That’s what often done in EAC circles."
The professionals at the First Grading Roundtable did exactly that. While I just opened the Photograde book and graded the large cent XF because it matched the photo, the experts broke into three groups
Group 1. I agreed with them - XF.
Group 2. AU - The coin deserved to be graded AU because it was a rare date worth AU money and was struck on a screw press.
Group 3. VF - The coin is an XF but it has some rim nicks and a scratch so it is only worth VF money.
These men were some of the leaders in the industry and some helped with the ANA Grading Guide. See the point. The XF coin was netted both up and down by notable dealers and numismatists.
NOPE! JA was possibly in diapers at the time.
Let it go already!
Smitten with DBLCs.
LOL. Actually, I'm making a little progress towards the answer by speaking directly with some folks who were around before you, me, or JA were interested in coins. They had something useful to add. Unfortunately,YOU DON'T!
Interesting question and post; I actually became aware of it prior to joining EAC a few years ago...
I still have a couple of the old ANACS slabbed coins with net grades on the labels and they were actually my first encounters with that concept. If I were to guess I might even suggest you had a hand in it @Insider2!
Nope. The "true" Technical System used for internal records at ANACS - ONLY while in DC was my "baby." That system was also used at the first TPGS, INSAB (no longer in existence making ANACS the OLDEST TPGS). The ANA used a bastardized system in CO that they called technical grading.
I never heard of net grading at the time. Besides, Net Grading would have been useless to Identify a coin. As was posted above, it is difficult to reach an agreement on a coin's net grade.
Today, I learned it was something dealers were sort of doing automatically when pricing coins way back then so it is looking as though Net Grading was not one person's idea. It developed all by itself . The EAC grading Guide (highly recommend) is the best treatment of that system.
Net grading is another attempt at finding the only important number for a coin.
But you still have to see the coin to set your price.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
As far as officially it was ANACS with their paper grading certificates....I think late 70's or early 80's. ANACS identified multiple factors of the coin and graded each item separately. Then assigned an overall grade based on those factors. Essentially net grading. In 1976 Joel Rettew (and his employees David Hall and Van Simmons) put a multiple grading system on paper in their coin catalog (photos attached). MS60, MS60+, MS65, MS65+, MS70 (today that would be similar to 62, 64, 66-67, 67-68, 70). In my mind, the first dealer grading system put down on paper and basically a "net" system since anything with + signs is assigning extra factors beyond the grade itself. They were also accounting for strike, marks, etc. Even then JA was a teen trading in the coin markets....well out of diapers....lol. New England Rare Coin Galleries (Jim Halperin, Mark Emory, Russ Vaughn, Chris Tracey, Lee Belisario, etc) in the mid-70's was also assigning number grades of 60,60+,65,67, and even 70. Realistically, anyone ever evaluating how much to pay for a coin had to run "net grading - net value" through their heads....regardless of how they did it. Goes WAY back.
Thanks! In fact, the act of commercially net grading a coin goes far before that time. True Technical Grading was devised in 1973. At that time I found nothing in print about net grading a coin but I'll bet something is "out there" in print - Im looking.
So far, I am concluding that it was a way of pricing a coin and it had no "official" beginning or original developer. It was just passed down as the way to do things. For example, I'm sure there is an late 17th Century auction catalogue where a coin is described as an "XF with defects that make it only worth a VF bid" or some such description. That would be "net" grading.
Therefore I'm going to stop bashing the "stupid fool" who decided an XF coin should be given a lower grade for some reason.
We never had that problem with the true technical system because it only gave a very precise description of a coin to identify its condition of preservation from when it left the Mint! A coin's value, rarity, owner, or market conditions had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with its condition (grade). Technical grading did not change over time due to prices or as grading and the knowledge of the examiners evolved. It never worked in the coin market and was quickly replaced by commercial grading within about ten years.
Just had to post this- my recent add to my collection:
I distinctly remember reading either The Numismatic Scrapbook or Coin World in my bedroom in 1968-1969 - when I read some commentary or even an article about putting numbers on a grade. The names that come to mind would have been Julian, David Hall and maybe Jamie Halperin. There must have been meetings or a roundtable at some point during the early 1970's timeframe.
At that time, I believe that MS-65 was being bandied about as the highest grade to be recognized.
I knew it would happen.
It may not have been one person or a group that devised net grading, but more of how coin dealer grading evolved in the B&M shops. Old coin envelopes, flips, and notes from the 1950's - 70's would give more evidence.
My first coin purchase above face value was in 1971, I took a bus to downtown Seattle and bought a couple of IHC's from John Konrad, both graded EF+, still have one. The Redbook at the time used adjectival grading of Good, VG, Fine, V. Fine, EF, Unc. The plus or + was the dealer's way of getting a 45 or 50 price out of an "EF". Other old flips I have, used "choice" in a similar manner. For net grades, I don't think I have anything that states a "net" reduction or a minus, but I do remember arrows on a flip pointing to a dig or scratch, with a lower price. Then there were the "slider" coins that are now somewhere in the 53-62 range.
It may not have been one person or a group that devised net grading, but more of how coin dealer grading evolved in the B&M shops."
This is the exact conclusion I have been lead to believe by very knowledgeable numismatists who predate my professional career by at least fifteen years. Net grading evolved and today is often seen in many commercially graded coins. Certain segments of collectors still use it.