My initial experience with Heritage Auctions
isaiah58
Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
I decided to fully register with Heritage so I could fully experience their auction process.
To that end I made opening bids on two slabed Franklin halfs, both MS65 FBL. This allowed me to be involved as my current goal is to start a Franklin collection.
My initial surprise was the minimum buyers fee. My opening bids were $45 per coin, the minimum buyers fee was $19. One coin sold at $95, the other at $150. If I understood the auction, it was concluded the past two days in a final live bid scenario.
Without getting into specific dates, both winning bids were at the top of what I could find them via eBay, PCGS valuation, or on trusted dealers websites. Neither coin was part of a "collection" nor did they exhibit any toning or exceptional appearance. I tracked each to PCGS to verify they were the same coin as registered, they were.
My conclusion was that buyers do get caught up in auctions and can forget to factor in final buyers fees. I would have made one additional increase in my maximum bid but the coins exceeded my limit, after adjusting for the high fee.
Comments
Thanks for sharing your experience
@isaiah58
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
if I understand the post, you didn't win either coin. that means your "experience" didn't cost you anything yet you learned from it. one valuable take-away I have from any auction venue --- for "widgets" it can be a bad place to buy. your foray seems to have shown that. on the bright side, for me at least, the auctions I favor offer me items that I might otherwise have a difficult time locating and at a higher level of quality, better than average on whole.
welcome and best of luck in the future.
Buying lower value coins like that at auction can prove to be a very expensive undertaking. You would probably be better off waiting until you can attend a large show and buy such coins in person. Beware of auction company fees and charges and make sure you real the terms of sale completely.
Correction: read not real.
And that is the true value in attending a coin show. Intelligent conversation and probative questions, touchy feely all the coins you can, then pull the trigger or not. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Auctions are best for rarities/very expensive coins, and items where it is hard to establish a price based on the guides and past auction results (top pops, super toners, etc.). You'll find that most items get run up to near retail during the pre-biddings.
With Heritage, you also get very professional images of the coin. You get a good feel about what you’ll be receiving, should you win. Not so with the average eBay pic. eBay is a bit more of a gamble, in terms of that. I think this encourages stronger bidding on Heritage.
Dave
I bid a lot on Heritage coins. But like you, I don't win a lot.
As noted above, keep an eye on TAXES (if they are charged in your state), and the shipping fees are not exactly low either.
But you can LEARN a lot. See what is available in the market, get a feel for what is popular, and what is not. And once in a while, you find what YOU really want that you haven't been able to find elsewhere....
I did forget to look into the shipping fees, thanks for mentioning that.
I am fortunate to live in the DC/Baltimore Metro Area and have access to several reliable dealers. We have a few coin shows around here that I was planning to attend this year. I guess that has been delayed indefinitely for the time being.
If I had to buy online, for whatever reason, I do see the value that Heritage offers, especially when it will come to the couple of more expensive date/mm Franklins I will eventually purchase.
Shipping fees include full insurance, but are another money maker for Heritage.
They are quite high, but can be negotiated.
I would much prefer to buy coins at a major show than try to buy them in an auction. It’s a lot easier and more pleasant for me to negotiate with a dealer at a show than to hassle with an auction. All it takes is one “yahoo” who will pay any price, no matter how high, to get a particular lot. And as I have said here many times before. As soon as I bid on a lot, the bids usually go nuts.
Auctions are the place to buy coins that are hard to find anywhere else. They are not the place to buy “widgets” unless you have a lot with multiple coins in it which might slip passed the other bidders.
I've only bought from them once or twice, and promised myself I wouldn't anymore. It was a hassle trying to figure out how much I would actually owe when it was all said and done. The fees and shipping added up to be more than I thought, so I overpaid for a coin I thought I got a decent deal on, lol.
Ha price is not cheap. They push up price all the time to get sucker to buy. So you need to set your price and stick to it. Lots of time if they can’t sell the item first time they will auction it again later time the price will be lower.
Heritage shipping charges are ridiculous. Their speed at sending out items to ship after payment also leaves much to be desired. GreatCollections is much much better on both fronts.
I suggest you now try Great Collections so you can compare the two. I believe you’ll find it a worthwhile exercise.
I agree with many of the comments
suggesting you attend local coin shows. Nothing compares to buying in person in my opinion. Good luck and enjoy the quest
With any purchase at auction, back your bids off by the total fees that will be assigned.....buyer's fee, taxes, shipping. And in many cases subtracting that 30-40% out of your bids will make you somewhat non-competitive on most routine items. No problem, let the other guy over-pay by 20-30%. Buyer's fees normally come out of the seller's pockets....unless you wish to relieve them of that responsibility by failing to back them out of your bids.
_They push up price all the time to get sucker to buy. _
Care to back up your claim with some proof?
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
Do they collect sales tax on coins in DC? Some people live nearby and visit to check some coins out. If they feel it is under graded, the sales price may reflect that.
Is Heritage holding the coins at a location in DC?
No.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have been to many auctions, people over bid, that is how they attract sellers. I highly doubt that Heritage would use or allow shills. They do not need to. I am sure they have independent auditor's in place to protect everyone.
Heritage Auctions are not cheap. I bought a considerable number of coins from them in years past. They also auctioned off quite a bit of my primary collection for me. I got very good money out of what they sold. I paid pretty dearly for the items I bought (both coins, comic books and baseball cards) but the things I bought I held for more than 5 years and ended up making money on all of them. I left that market after while and had built my collections by purchases from David Lawrence Rare Coins and Great Collections.
I also attended the Atlanta ANA show several times and while I met many interesting people and looked at a lot of coins, I didn't purchase that much there due to strong asking prices on run of the mill items.
Bottom line, if you want to build a nice collection of Franklins, attend shows, visit Great Collections website and participate in their auctions and also visit David Lawrence. You can also do well on Ebay if you are careful about what you buy, look for great pictures and go with dealers that offer good pictures, easy returns and reasonable starting bids.
Good luck!
I agree with the comments about Great Collections. I am registered with both HA and GC and have bought from GC, one thing I like is there deferred payment plan for auction wins over $1000. I appreciate the fact I can pay over three months on that plan and can budget for coins without having to dip into other fund sources.
I don't know if Heritage has any options like that, I was turned off like the OP with such a high minimum. GC does have some good pictures, although I do believe some of the pictures are washed out just a bit from to much light.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Heritage's fees are unjustifiably exorbitant in my opinion.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I’ve never had anything but good experiences with Heritage. Little tidbit, going back about 12 years I had an email to contact them. So I did and found out that I had actually won one of their quarterly survey prizes. It was $300 cash or credit with them. I said please send the check, and they did. I was always skeptical if anyone was really selected.
Anyways, as far as fees go, I always know what they are and factor them in my bid decisions. The fees are what they are. It’s what they think they need to be and I don’t have to pay them if I don’t want to by just not bidding, which I have done many times.
"Today the crumbs, tomorrow the
loaf. Perhaps someday the whole damn boulangerie." - fictional Jack Rackham
After several recent purchases, I tend to agree with the consensus in the thread. For example, one cannot bid at the same level for the same coin on eBay and Heritage. Now that eBay charges taxes for California residents, the playing field is a bit more level but the Heritage BP and shipping costs still tend to favor ebay. If one keeps those fees included in their bidding strategy, there are still good deals to be found at Heritage.
There are intangibles described above such as image quality, reputation and customer service that keeps me returning to Heritage. Lauren and Lori have always been pleasant, responsive and extremely helpful. Ebay customer service? Don't get me started....
As much as I live HA, their images are mostly terrible and you can't really trust what the coin looks like from their images. Unless you see in person, you could be very surprised with what you end up with with a win there.
Best, SH
I completely agree. I don't buy much at Heritage, but I have purchased a few items. Most recently was a colonial note signed by a signatory to the Declaration of Independence. I looked through a decade of auction results and every currency seller I could find and determined the note I was interested in was probably about as good as I'd be able to get in my budget. I did bid an extra increment or two beyond what I wanted to pay, but I have no plans to sell (I'm not trying to flip it quickly for a profit), and that's what it took to get it. The auction had THE item I wanted, so I went there. But if I wanted a white MS65 Morgan dollar, I'd be looking elsewhere.
My understanding is that Heritage reserves the right to bid on any coin in their auctions. Correct me if I am wrong.....
Best, SH
For common items, I pick the best trustworthy venue price-wise. For scarcer items or rarities, I go where they are. Most of my recent buys (medals) are from Europe. Talk about needing patience, especially now.
+1
I would almost never consider bidding on a Heritage coin strictly from their images. Like @spacehayduke , I love pretty much everything else about the company, though. Well, that Feld guy can be a PITA sometimes...
(just kidding!!)
My understanding is that Heritage reserves the right to bid on any coin in their auctions.
from Heritage Auctions terms and conditions:
--- 21. The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those
lots or any other lots.
I understand, and have been at auctions where employees are allowed to bid. Outside of a local auctioneer that back in the 1990's had developed the reputation to employee shill bidders (and went out of business because of that) it does not abode well for HA or similar houses to risk shill bidding. Hopefully they use proper safeguards against it being done by their sellers or internally. I was not intending for this thread to be hijacked by this aspect.
Which IS a possible concern for the consignors or sellers. It's not of ANY concern to a buyer other than doing some simple mathematics on your bids.
Interesting. I’ve won (or purchased outright) at least 35 coins from Heritage, going back 10+ years. The images have always been right on the money for me. New monitor? 🧐
Dave
This comment will probably be longer than you or I want. While many issues are subjective, there’s a lot being said above as generalizations that while perhaps are occasionally true, I strongly believe they are not true as generalizations. I’ll get to that in a moment. However, I do fully agree with the comments about the advantages of attending, and purchasing coins at large shows.
As background, I purchase almost all of my coins from Heritage, Great Collections, Legend, and David Lawrence. While a few of my coin purchases are low five figure coins, and most are four figure coins, last year I started putting together two collections that are almost entirely three figure coins - a 50 coin Classic Silver Commemorative Type Set, and a 50 coin Lincoln Wheat Cent Date Set. Admittedly, the coins I’m buying for these sets are all above the price level indicated in the OP, but I’m still looking primarily at three figure coins.
There may have been other disparaging, untrue accusations above, but my reply is already too long, and it’s late at night.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
An auction company can and will bid on any lot they wish. This is not necessarily a 'shill' bid, It is perfectly legal for the auctioneer or the auction company to bid on items they want, Also if there is a reserve the company can bid up to the reserve, or one increment below. Their job is to make as much money as they can for the seller as they are representing the seller or consignor.
Auctions are heavily regulated and watched by the regulators. HA is too large to be playing idiot games. I have bid on lots in several HA auctions. I have been totally blown out of the water every time, but that was because there were people valuing the coin higher than I did. I see no reason for anyone to complain about their fees
How does EBay charging sales “level the playing field”? Doesn’t Heritage also charge sales tax? Just curious about your comment
I'm hesitant to place a bid on David Lawrence auctions. It doesn't pass my "sniff test" to participate in an auction where the "auction house" has a financial interest in the item you're bidding on...so I've stayed away.
They do tell you BEFORE you bid what the cost will be with and without the fee. Looks like anything $100 or over is whacked 20%. Ouch.
Heritage was charging sales tax in many states long before eBay added sales tax to transactions. Thus, for equivalent items, if you weren't going to pay use tax on an eBay purchase, the eBay purchase was cheaper by the cost of the sales tax. Of course, use tax should have leveled that, but most folks weren't paying it. Once eBay started adding sales tax, the purchase was apples to apples--an item selling for $X on either platform (on Heritage, $X includes the buyer's premium) would have the same net cost to the buyer.
Use Heritage as part of your vendors of choice like eBay, coin shows, GC, coin dealers, BST, etc. I have made good buys on Heritage and I have made some mistakes. When I am looking for a coin, I try to leave no stone unturned.
Why in the world would you say "Ouch"? If there's a coin you like, and total costs, all in, you're willing to pay a total of $200, you just adjust your bid down, so that if indeed you're the high bidder, your TOTAL cost should be around $200. Figure $10 for shipping (just my guess on a $200 coin), so you bid $160. If $160 is the high bid, you pay that, plus $32 b.p., plus $10 shipping in this fictitious example, for a total of $202. It is the SELLER that suffers from that buyers fee of $32, since the hammer price was only $160, so roughly that is what the seller will receive. As long as you know of that fee, just adjust your bid down to take that into account! it's so very simple, as that's what other buyers do!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I understand that, but anything I've wanted in the past I rarely got using that approach. Either I didn't get it or I overpaid a tad. For the time being I've given up wanting. Their high bid increments burn my butt more than anything.
When you didn't get it, that's because others were willing to pay more. It's not the method, it's just that the total price others were willing to pay for those particular coins were more than the total price of what you were willing to pay, and that's OK.
As for paying a tad more than you wanted to pay, I suggest that you recognize that every coin is different, and if some have terrific eye appeal, in MY opinion, it's worth paying a tad more for that. While some coins trade as commodities, those that are nicer tend to cost more than those with less eye appeal.
I fully agree with you that high bid increments are a deterrent. However, those high increments could at times keep another bidder from going any higher than YOUR maximum bid, so that could work in your favor.
Stay safe!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I've both bought and sold coins via Heritage Auctions. Very happy. Never a problem.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
A lot depends upon what you use to determine you willing to pay price too.
For California resident such as myself, ebay purchases were tax free until last year. This meant ebay had a distinct advantage when comparing the final out of pocket costs with Heritage for coins under $1500 (at which point coin and bullion purchases become tax exempt).
That makes sense. Live in Iowa. There is no tax on coins. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity
My pleasure - moved here from Davenport. Might be coming back soon!