Hypothetical major auction question
Justacommeman
Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
If you consigned coins to a auction that would be taking place in the near future could you pull them for fear of covid 19 effecting the results? ( damn that was a long azz sentence) That would go for any unforeseen event that might negatively effect results. Right or wrong some people are concerned about the near future. Money is one concern. Bidding on coins might not be a priority in a week or two or three......month
They just canceled South by Southwest in Austin. Major event. GOOGLE just canceled a major conference. Vegas will be canceling conferences. I could see the NCAA tourney being canceled or pushed back. Coachella, StageCoach Etc etc etc
m
Walker Proof Digital Album
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
3
Comments
Most Auctions have a consignment agreement. Consult it first. Thereafter talk to the auction house to see if pulling your consignments would be permissible under the circumstances.
Pull them if the dollar value is important to you.
P.S. Your 'long azz' sentence looks just fine to me--perhaps a touch short on detail, though--and I would count on the coronavirus being a scare for more than the forthcoming month. When the number of confirmed cases really explodes and supply chains start sputtering, I don't think people will be too interested in attending coin auctions or coin shows.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I was thinking more of what might a Pogue might do.
To be honest when I have consigned major size I always worried a little about what external forces might damper sales up until auction day
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What is the exit cost? If it is more than ca. 15-20% of what you reasonably can get (i.e., without a ferocious bidding war), leave them where they are and pray.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Let’s take it one step further. Has any major coin auctions ever been postponed/ canceled due to external events? Is it even a possibility that Stacks could push their next sale back indefinitely?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
A few have been canceled because somebody bought everything in a private sale (en bloc) shortly before the auction began.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I recall Bowers and Merena postponing an important auction in the wake of 911! Also, a prominent 19th dealer postponed a major auction in the wake of Lincoln's assassination!
Stacks just recently postponed one of its world auctions:
https://www.coinbooks.org/v23/esylum_v23n08a20.html
Back in 2008, a Palm Beach coin show was cancelled, due to damage from a Hurricane. And the Heritage auction that was to have been held in conjunction with the show, was moved to Dallas.
https://www.numismaticnews.net/article/palm_beach_show_canceled_heritage_auction_moved_to_dallas
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Good luck Mark!
U.S. Type Set
Interesting question.
Live life. Don't worry.
I dunno. If people are cooped up at home, the auction might be better than average. Hard to predict.
Since most of the bidding is done online I would doubt it for auctions held in the US.
However you can always ask to pull your consignment under these strange coronavirus circumstances .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
For the record I have nothing currently consigned. But I have often wondered when I did this very scenario of external forces reeking havoc in the months leading up to auction.
I plan on bidding on quite a few SB lots but truth be told I’m lowering my max bids from what I originally planned. If I win at what I consider a relative bargain then great. If not great. In general I’m an aggressive bidder of things I want. It generally takes a bigger fool to out duel me
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
...which one?
Not sure if they allow reserves on the auction you are talking about. That would be one way to protect yourself as a seller.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Reserves are usually the very low end of the expectation spectrum. Just hitting the reserve is going to result to grown cosigners crying
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
For some people being cooped up at home means they are watching bad news on TV. Constantly watching what the stock market is doing. Checking dwindling 401k and brokerage accounts. Unable to sell a house. Watching people taking about conspiracy theories. It also means being cooped up for an extended time they are not earning paychecks.
Coins seem like a low priority in that scenario
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Hey, life can be cruel some days.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Most of us sign contracts that leave it up to the auction firm. That said, as a reasonable compromise, I might ask an auction company to move my lots from one auction to another at a later date, but only if i thought it was important.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
under the circumstances outlined in the OP it seems reasonable that something could be done. perhaps, as MrEureka said, things could just be done at a later date. that would accommodate you and the auction firm.
Expect the auction firm to do what best serves its financial interests, not those of the consignor. It's business. There is a reason why the consignment agreements are now several pages of small type.
With the way the media is fueling this virus issue, and how I see people reacting, the panic button has already been hit...We shall see how things progress. Logic has not prevailed (Flu is much worse with more deaths by far), so I do not see anything positive occurring for a while. Cheers, RickO
You're making too much sense.
don't they have internet?
The B&M /ANR auction Martin refers to was slated for NYC the same week that the 911 disaster occurred. Immediately rescheduled. Know of no others.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I think for an auction like pogue the issue is this: a guy who normally will stretch and pay 50k or 75k for a special coin---will the uncertainly of the virus make him think maybe this is not the time to spend that kind of money on the coin. I dont know the answer.
You could offer to provide free disposable N95 masks, nitrile gloves, booties, and surgical gowns to all bidders....
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Live auction or Internet. If internet access It might just be the right time for a auction with tax return money coming in along with the fact that as the weather gets better people tend to go outside rather than staying in and looking at anything on a computer.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Will there be significantly less people bidding because they won’t travel to Baltimore and they will only bid if they can lot view?
Assuming there is Internet bidding, you may do quite well. Everyone is cooped up at home, hiding under the bed, CNN's Anderson Cooper talking in the background....might as well throw in a bid!
Dave
I think the main concern here is about economic uncertainty and how that will affect bidders, particularly at the high end. I think there have been times of greater economic instability than this. Dot com bust ... subprime mortgage bust ... probably others. Did they postpone auctions or withdraw lots at those times? I don't know.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
That’s really what I’m getting at. In no way can Pogue be sleeping well at night.
Maybe all will be good
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
There were zero bargains to be had in this weeks Heritage comics, comic art, and video game sale. Hearing the same across other verticals as well.
The keystone collection of the 9/11 postponed B&M sale was the “Tree of many feathers collection” and I believe prices were ultimately solid.
Brett Charville --- I work at PCGS
Hope it continues. Very fluid situation.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
https://fortune.com/2020/02/26/coronavirus-insurance/
Too late for insurance?
There appears to be a proposed plan in place to lock down 16 million people for one month in northern Italy. Could happen tomorrow Milan, Parma and Venice would be effected.
m
https://gulfnews.com/world/europe/italy-to-lock-down-milan-venice-and-other-regions-1.70224386
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think the knee jerk reaction is to conclude this will not slow down deep pocketed collectors like Hansen in an auction like Pogue or other major auctions. That may be true. However, I know there are numerous coins over the last couple years that I was the underbidder to Hansen and if either one of us was not bidding, those coins would have gone for far less (I lost some coins with bids that I thought were too strong and could not lose). So even if Hansen or others are still bidding the same, the question remains whether fear/uncertainty of the virus will impact overall prices realized.
Curiously, how can you be so certain that if you or Mr. Hansen had not been bidding, that someone else wouldn’t have jumped in?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Had zero problems hitting the Atlanta United home opener with 69k other people last night. The virus BS is overhyped for sure.
While, like so many other things, there’s hype involved, the “virus BS” is not BS.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm speculating but I'm reasonable certain auctions were cancelled for WWII, maybe the Kennedy assassination.
For many of the highest end bidders, the prices they pay for trophy coins are pocket change. The area of concern should be "ordinary" coins consigned to such auctions. We always hear of the record prices being paid for the high end material but rarely hear of how the "ordinary" coins did.
I’m dead certain it was Stacks. Either Vermuele or the huge dollar sale consigned by Lipton
Nothing is for certain but there were a number of liberty quarter eagles based upon past prices realized, my knowledge of the series and other auction info, that I concluded if either Hansen or I didnt bid the coins would have gone cheaper.
I dont think what I am saying is novel. We often hear that at auction all it takes is two determined bidders to cause a coin to go far higher. My point is a question--will the economic uncertainty related to the virus cause some bidders to sit out and therefore depressed prices? I dont know the answer but I doubt anyone does.
Now official. Italy locks down 16 million people
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Stacks canceled the Vermuele sale scheduled to go off the evening of 911. Harvey told me that day in NYC that they had only canceled one other auction in all their years in business. That one was November 22, 1963, the day that JFK was shot...they had an auction that evening.
No promising signs today. Its getting rough out there!
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Indeed. Bobsled ride to hell today
Interesting times we live in
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......