Did NGC graded this 1932 Indian 10$ too high?
Redfox
Posts: 33 ✭✭
Browsing through gold coins I've come upon a 1932 Indian eagle. The thing that caught my attention was a grade assaigned by NGC - MS 64. The piece has obviously many small bag marks, with two BIG hits in the focal area of the Indian's head. I would like to see some thoughts about this coin. Also, would this discrepancy between given grade and the condition of the eagle have an impact on its market value?
Thanks,
Redfox
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I would say yes. I would say this should sell for somewhere between 63 and 64 money.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
you can not tell from the pics how much luster there is, which adds to eye appeal.
If the marks are that conspicuous in hand, it wouldn’t matter to me how much luster the coin has.
However, starting a thread about an NGC coin on the PCGS forum, with a thread title of “ Did NGC graded this 1932 Indian 10$ too high?”, isn’t an ideal was to get unbiased opinions.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Looks right to me.
Lighting has a lot to do with it...
The TrueView of my $10 Indian (graded PCGS MS 65) makes the marks on and around the face look much more prominent than they really are.
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While the Heritage auction photos almost don't show any marks at all!
In hand, the truth is somewhere in between, the marks are there, but unless you're looking for them, the rest of the coin being so clean and shiny totally distracts.
So if the lighting caught just right on your photos above to really accent them and make them look worse than they do in hand, then yeah, it probably graded accurately. If they look that deep and distracting in hand though, then maybe it should have been a 63/63+. Though the reverse looks great and might have bumped up the obverse grade a little.
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It would be extremely unusual for the reverse of a coin to bump up the grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm definitely still learning, and wouldn't dream of arguing with the best grader I know
but surely if the reverse can drag down a grade, it could also help a grade a little, no? Like, if the obverse is a 68 and the reverse has a lot of marks, is a 63 let's say, I would assume the coin net grades to a 66 or possibly 65. And assuming that assumption is correct, would it not work the other way around too? Or am I just completely wrong on how net grading works?
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By modern standards, I'd say 64 is about right. I like the overall look of it despite the marks on the portrait.
I have seen several 1932 $10 that have what I consider a little heavier marks than you would like to see for the assigned grade, but luster was so fresh and popping, that they gave it the higher grade anyway. PCGS & NGC both
I see what you mean. The gash on the jaw puts it way away from 65 OMG that mark up to right a bigger baddie too lol. I would need see it in hand plus under a glass in 100 watt light to fully evaluate. Did you get it around melt? I view the 64 grade as a superb CH BU vs 63 CH BU. Do you feel it’s superb CH BU?
I would suggest you look at multiple MS64 pieces to get a feel where you think the NGC falls in the grade range. Unless you know how look at coins and get a feel where a coin falls in grade range stay from these kind of big ticket classic coins. Guy in coin club went bankrupt on them. You don’t want be the end user. Slabbed Mod Gold May be better choice. A nice slabbed 69 half ounce AGE may be better choice. Has more gold too plus cheaper. Decide on a risk limit for Classic material numismatic portion. For me it’s $300.
Also if selling how easy and quickly do you think you could move it. Could you get CPG?
If buyers feel coin low end they will not buy them or bid much if at all. Of course it will sell if you start it on bay at 99c. Otherwise on low end big ticket stuff one may end up as the end user.
Hairllines are more the grade killers from what I have seen than stray marks. If the fields are super clean then the stray marks can equate to MS64 grades. And I see the reverse of the coin more of a confirmation of the obverse.
I’m not going to say that you’re completely wrong or that it never happens. However, I believe that it would be an extremely rare exception for it to work the other way around.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Good to know, thanks.
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Looks about right to me. Congrats!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
What an incredibly painful opinion to read about the members here. Are we unable to assess a coin based on its merits outside of being members of this forum? Apparently not?
I will second what Mark is saying. All the reverse will do is limit the coins upside, 99.9% of the time.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Look, we can find enough coins that enough folks think are overgraded to clutter the heck out of a grading class or a coin forum. Marks are only one part of the picture - even large ones. Look at the ENTIRE COIN. The OP's coin is not as clean as that 1907 but if you know what to look for (don't ask) some would be screaming it is not correctly graded either.
MS-63 and MS-64 coins can have hits. That's why they are not MS-65's. The apparent (?) rub on the reverse of the OP's coin bothers me more than the large marks; however, in the commercial world of TPGS's IMO, MS-64 is an OK grade. I doubt it would get a green bean though.
The obverse has pretty good detail in the hair and feathers....and the fields look good... 64 looks acceptable for this coin. Cheers, RickO
Looks good as graded - totally.
If it would bean is another question, I suspect not, but I like it as graded.
Looks like a run of the mill 64 to me from images.
It looks good to me ... 64 fits.
To the OP, one of the most important things you need to remember is that grading is an art not a science. Every bit of variance present in normal every day life appears in grading. While that coin does not look to be at the upper end of MS64, the pictures look like what you will often see in MS64 holders.