Coins graded MS68 and having a "designation" for strike.
keets
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Should a coin with a strike "designation" such as FS/Full Steps, FB/Full Split Bands or FBL/Full Bell Lines be graded as MS68 without that strike designation being present??
Al H.
From the PCGS glossary:
MS-67 --- This is for "Mint State" (the grade) and "67" (the numerical designation of that grade). A superb-quality coin! Any abrasions are extremely light and do not detract from the coin’s beauty in any way. The strike is extremely sharp (or full) and the luster is outstanding. This is a spectacular coin!
MS-68 --- This is for "Mint State" (the grade) and "68" (the numerical designation of that grade). A nearly perfect coin, with only minuscule imperfections visible to the naked eye. The strike will be exceptionally sharp and the luster will glow. This is an incredible coin.
MS-69 --- This is for "Mint State" (the grade) and "69" (the numerical designation of that grade). Virtually perfect in all departments, including wondrous surfaces, a 99% full strike (or better), full unbroken booming luster and show-stopping eye appeal. You may have to study this coin with a 5X glass to find the reason why it didn’t grade MS70.
Comments
In my opinion, no. MS coins without full details can be quite nice, but not deserving of a market grade of 68.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
AG ..........All details and high points are clear and bold
G ...........Some mint luster, almost new
VG .........Full blazing luster, everything is bold
F .............Blazing luster with mint "frost"
VF .......... As above with no bag marks
XF ...........Blazing luster, full mint frost, no bag marks, field must have mirror finish, pristine and superlative
AU ...... Coin will draw blood if touched on high points
Unc......... Imaginary condition. If coin has left mint, it is circulated.
What if the coin left the Mint in a special presentation box. Is it still "circulated"?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The short answer is yes.
A Full Steps designation on the Jefferson nickel was ill-advised to begin with and few will admit that the steps on the Monticello have little to do with the design and overall surface on the reverse. Let's shoot for a Full Portico as that is far more reflective of the design.
The full head on the SLQ as a designation falls well short as a designation that has merit for the same reason as full steps. Let's look at the shield... The full head is just not reflective of the high points of the design.
This may sound revolutionary... But I have suggested this for years and I suspect no one wants to pay attention for meaningful change that no one has a vested interest in changing or promoting change that will lead to a more descriptive outcome for grading.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Everyone knows that none of the TPGS follows the "printed word" in all cases. Over the years, a coin's strike is becoming less important - at one time a Morgan dollar could not grade higher than MS-64 without the hairlines over the ear. Besides a little strike weakness is not going to ruin the eye appeal of an MS-69 or 70.
Additionally, I'll bet it is rare to have a 68 or 69 in those series in the first place. I've NEVER, EVER seen or graded a coin in those series that high but I'm a conservative grader.
If the air in the capsule hasn't been exchanged, the coin should think it's still at the mint. Right?
To answer the OP question, I'm not sure.
Collector, occasional seller
That’s an interesting question. In theory, the answer should be no. But things don’t work that way in our world.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed. At some point, luster and eye appeal became the trump cards.
I don't see why not.
Something I noticed on the Kennedy half's in 2019 is the feather tips just under the bottom of the shield on the reverse, there should be 8 feather tips visable yet I found them non existent on several MS67'S, just a lump of metal often level with the bottom edge of the shield, basically a cud, I'm not sure if that was an oversight or just accepted. If it's acceptable then at what grade is it not acceptable? 68? 69? 70?
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Excellent points Al....In fact, it adds to the weakness of the grading process even further... Our coins receive a grade based on the opinion of some trained individuals....Individuals who look at coins all day, in high volume, each coin for mere seconds.... no accounting for fatigue, mental state, eye sight....With AI now a viable process, and computer memory no longer a constraint, it merely takes a focused programming project and we could have standards that are documented and repeatable. This is the next step for TPG's....Who will be the market leader?? Cheers, RickO
Dave Bowers has been complaining about this for years, noting that these designations, like FH for SLQs, don't mean much if other parts of the coin are not well struck.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I don't think a coin should be a high grade if part(s) of the design are missing, period. I pass on many high grade coins that have weak strikes or part(s) of the design missing.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
As long as the perceived VALUE of a coin is designated by the assigned GRADE by a major TPGS based on conditions in the coin market, there will ALWAYS be something that does not make sense.
True "Technical Grading" used at the first TPGS assessed the condition of the coin from the time it dropped off the press. That's why a coin's strike had no effect on its grade. GRADE THE COIN ONLY. That way the grade was precise and not affected by the coin market or the passage of time. Let the professional dealers determine the buy/sell value difference between an MS-65 and an MS-65, weak strike coin of the same date and mint! It was so simple that the dealers hated it!
Bottom line, you only need two things to be successful:
I was fortunate to cross paths with Bowers a few times.. He is a terrific ambassador for the hobby. I need not discuss designations with him. I was able to show him US Coin that he had never seen before... That was fun.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.