Looking Back: Was slabbing problem coins and moderns a smart move on PCGS's part?
braddick
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Would PCGS the brand have been better off if they simply refused to slab problem coins? It used to be you would receive the coin back in a flip with the problem noted, yet not slabbed.
How about coins minted after 1970? Should modern bullion and current coins be slabbed or does it cheapen PCGS to do so?
peacockcoins
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No, because the competition does and they would have lost market share
No, I do not think they would have been better off if they did not slab detail coins. "Problem" coins still have a market place and a market, if you doubt this check any large auction.
There is also a very active market for slabbed moderns and bullion coins.
As a confirmed capitalist, myself, I think it was a marvelous decision. Profit to the bottom line...
Cheers, RickO
That's pretty much it. The goal of a business is to make money. The easiest way to do that is to provide a service that people want/desire more than they want/desire their own money.
Hobbyists and dealers have somewhat different goals and our host is probably in a better position to answer the question than we are.
Slabbing the coins does provide a valuable authentication service and an opinion about general level of preservation. That's worth something. In addition, it makes the coins more marketable to the "I love slabbed coins" folks.
The flip that the problem coin came back in was called a "body bag" in the era before PCGS started to slab these coins. Aptly named at the time.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It was very nearly a necessary move, otherwise the slabbing business is limited by what remains raw, nonproblematic, and worth grading in the eyes of potential submitters of U.S. coins. This has driven TPGs to explore other activities: registry sets, addition of various kinds of foreign coins, tokens, and medals, etc.
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Problem coins should be holdered as such so that I can avoid them.
I love modern coins, some of the best designs of all time
This all makes sense- and really, I appreciate the opinions as I vacillate between thinking it wise to have done so and at times, not so much.
Perhaps two "PCGS's"? One- designated by the type of holder and insert- that grades classic problem free coins and another grading moderns (and maybe a third that slabs the problem coins).
I guess what got me thinking about this all over again was looking at PCGS coins on eBay and seeing a plated XF 1943 steel cent being offered in PCGS plastic.
Just makes me think there might have been alternative methods of grading all these various types of coins without a hit to a fine reputation.
peacockcoins
It is strictly a business decision. Since people on this board have no access to inside financial information speculation on such things is just a waste of time.
Problem coin or not many key dates are beneficial to slab for authenticity.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
PGCS & NGC started to slab problem coins and moderns for several reasons. The other services were doing it already, it increased revenue, and it calmed down all the angry folks who paid money for a grade/slab and ONLY got a plastic flip back with their coin in it.
IMO, the only downside was the extra cost of slabbing everything and more importantly problem coins are often harder to authenticate.
I would have preferred if the top two services left problem coins for the other services because their original intention was to keep their product "clean." No problem coins slabbed. Slabbing moderns was a no-brainer and IMO should have been done from the beginning. I suspect the volume of vintage coins at the beginning made the consideration of modern coins unnecessary as it would slow down the return of what were considered the "real" coins.
My ONLY gripe with the top two services is they continue to ignore MOST varieties!
I sent all of my bodybags to ANACS for slabbing. I could sell them easier and bring more money being in a holder. So NO, PCGS done the right thing by putting a detail and calling the coin original on the holder, people pays more for a coin that is in a holder and PCGS coins bring more money than ANACS.
I think it was a very good idea. no sense in losing profit if you don't have to
When PCGS slabs a problem coin, they at least say what the problem is on the label. If you don't want to buy the coin, just don't buy it. Don't forget that there are many rare and valuable coins that are less than perfect that are worthy of being slabbed such as a lightly cleaned key date coin in a popular series or even a lightly corroded chain cent.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't think slabbing either problem or modern coins "cheapens" the PCGS brand. In the end analysis, it probably subsidizes grading of the coins I care about, which keeps fees lower than they might otherwise be.
I have a small collection of problem coins by all of the TPG's.
I buy them mainly for the numismatic education they can provide.
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I remember before they did a details grade. Everyone complained that they should because they sent their problem coins to ANACS and NGC. Then they started accepting them and people were happy to get authentication in the holder of their selection. Of course the next thing was coin conservation.
In the end, I think it’s a good service PCGS provides for those who want it. It hasn’t cheapened the label at all. People said the same thing about post 1964 coins. If I recall right, NGC originally stated they would never do any coin post 1964. The market overall doesn’t look down on them for doing that.
The only thorny spot with any TPG is on evaluating eye appeal and how that factors into the grade. But then again, as people have said here for years: ownership adds a point or two to the grade anyway.
If I remember PCGS slabbed moderns from the beginning. There simply wasn't any demand for it until about 1999 and extremely few moderns had been graded. There were proofs being graded through the '90's and people were overpaying for very common PR-69's and PR-70's. It was about 1997 that PCGS added modern registry sets.
Moderns are coins too and if they weren't being graded it would be as hard to find Gems now as it was in 1986 when PCGS started. Imagine trying to find a 1976 Gem Ike today with most of the sets tarnished without grading services!!!
You gotta be kidding.
Of course I might be better off if they hadn't been grading them all these years since more people would probably want Gems if the prices didn't START at $20. Few people are willing to plunk down $20 for a common coin and the rarities would be known by now. It's at least in partly my fault since I campaigned for moderns being added to registry sets.
Who knew?
Aside from the points that it helps the coin collecting community in general, which I agree with, I don't see how this hurts PCGS' brand. Should they not slab coins in grades less than fine? Should they not grade coins worth less than $100? The more a company can get their name out, the better for the brand. Seeing a bunch of coins in other company's plastic does not help PCGS' brand simply because some collectors don't like those coins.
My budget will not allow me to collect 18th, 19th and early 20th century coins. Does that mean I'm not a collector? Even though I've been collecting for 55+ years. There is a market for " moderns " and I for one agree with ErrorsOnCoins, I like them. Better than 50% of my over 1200 slabs are moderns. Somebody ( or I ) paid to have them slabbed, and our hosts are indeed a business. No experience with " problem " coins, but I believe the same holds true.
I totally agree, anything less and socialism wins.
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Problem coins are par for the course for many early series. Authentication is important for them and for some rarities. As for moderns and bullion? They keep the lights on and can only imagine what fees would be for more traditionally collected coins if they had not broken with the old nothing after 1964 rule. Also some rare coins exist, as we know, among modern issues too.
I suspect slabbing moderns provides a whole lot of the bread and butter to the TPGS.
What do you think they have been doing the last sixty to ninety days+? Slabbing Coins dated 2020.