UNC 1884-CC Morgan chin scratches VAM? Estimated Grade?

Kliao · February 10, 2020 5:46PM

I was going to send this into grading until I say the scratches on the cheek. Is it a VAM or just damage. Also what do you think it will grade at? I’m thinking a 62.

Insider2 · February 10, 2020 5:52PM

They are called "roller marks" and can be found on just about any Morgan eventually.

morgandollar1878 · February 10, 2020 5:52PM

Those are roller marks, not scratches and they are relatively common. They were on the planchet before the coin was struck. The grade can be affected by the severity, but I have never seen a Morgan not grade because of them.

Kliao · February 10, 2020 6:04PM

Thanks! And what is your estimated grade for this coin?

morgandollar1878 · February 10, 2020 6:10PM

Probably 62 no better than 63.

Kliao · February 10, 2020 6:11PM

I also noticed a scratch on the reverse, lower left of the wing. Will that stop it from getting graded?

morgandollar1878 · February 10, 2020 6:21PM

I see contact marks and die clash lines from the dies hitting each other without a planchet in between them. I think the one you are referring to is the one that is slightly curved and goes through a leaf tip of the olive branch. I don't really see anything else, but grading by pics is hit and miss and you can miss something pretty easy by looking at pics.

ifthevamzarockin · February 10, 2020 6:33PM

Looks like Vam 3A and about 62

Kliao · February 10, 2020 6:36PM

@ifthevamzarockin said:
Looks like Vam 3A and about 62

Thanks. It’s showing up as a R-5 rarity. Is it worth it to have PCGS also give it a variety?

ifthevamzarockin · February 10, 2020 6:42PM

The R factors are off on some Vams, I don't think 3A is a true R-5 and is somewhat common. I wouldn't pay extra for the variety, but I am not sure I would pay to grade it at a 62-63 level.

mannie gray · February 10, 2020 6:56PM

62ish

Texast · February 10, 2020 7:09PM

The answer I would give on grade would also be MS62

@morgandollar1878 said:
Those are roller marks, not scratches and they are relatively common. They were on the planchet before the coin was struck. The grade can be affected by the severity, but I have never seen a Morgan not grade because of them.

Could you please expand on "Roller Mark's" I have never heard about this, I'm asking to learn more about it, not to question your judgement at all.

Thanks,.
TexasT

morgandollar1878 · February 10, 2020 9:16PM

@Texast said:
The answer I would give on grade would also be MS62

@morgandollar1878 said:
Those are roller marks, not scratches and they are relatively common. They were on the planchet before the coin was struck. The grade can be affected by the severity, but I have never seen a Morgan not grade because of them.

Could you please expand on "Roller Mark's" I have never heard about this, I'm asking to learn more about it, not to question your judgement at all.

Thanks,.
TexasT

Roller marks come from the silver being rolled out into a long strip for making blank planchets. Most times the roller marks are eliminated when the coin is struck, but sometimes they remain on the struck coin when the roller marks were too deep in to the planchet or when the coin was not struck well enough. Usually they are the most noticeable on Liberty's cheek because it is such a smooth surface or on the breast feathers of the Eagle on the reverse.

Kkathyl · February 10, 2020 10:01PM

I just posted a GTG of a similar coin MS 65 with striation marks that are from original mintage process not PMD. They are not uncommon and not the same as scratches from Bag marks or partial circulation. Check the Vam for that particular coin and you will see what I mean. Zoom up picks like I posted will enhance the view of them on iPhone X or higher picture. But don’t be discouraged. Look for breaks in car wheel or any signs of rim damage or improper cleaning. If in a holder then if it looks good in hand and the price is right. Go for it. I would look at the black marks especially in reverse below. Also check out the common Fake China examples you can find on the net. I would say it will not grade higher then 61 due to marks in fields. Check the rim and dentils for irregularity. Here is one I have held back from regrading to pcgs

And another raw I got from china

messydesk · February 11, 2020 12:04AM

@Kkathyl said:
I just posted a GTG of a similar coin MS 65 with striation marks that are from original mintage process not PMD. They are not uncommon and not the same as scratches from Bag marks or partial circulation. Check the Vam for that particular coin and you will see what I mean. Zoom up picks like I posted will enhance the view of them on iPhone X or higher picture. But don’t be discouraged. Look for breaks in car wheel or any signs of rim damage or improper cleaning. If in a holder then if it looks good in hand and the price is right. Go for it. I would look at the black marks especially in reverse below. Also check out the common Fake China examples you can find on the net. I would say it will not grade higher then 61 due to marks in fields. Check the rim and dentils for irregularity....
And another raw I got from china

This is not a fake, but a genuine 78-CC VAM 17. It won't grade, though, due to the big patch of hairlines on the lower reverse.

ricko · February 11, 2020 6:05AM

I agree with the MS62 consensus...at least from the pictures.... Let us know if you send it in...The roller marks are an interesting anomaly... frequently visible on Morgans... Cheers, RickO

UNC 1884-CC Morgan chin scratches VAM? Estimated Grade?

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