First USPS/Ebay Issue
PhilLynott
Posts: 900 ✭✭✭✭✭
USPS marked the package as "Out for Delivery" on 12/16 then tracking stopped.
I called and spoke to someone and they said the package was at the post office and they could pick it up. The buyer called that specific post office who then told him sorry we don't allow pick ups here (allegedly).
Buyer then said he just wanted a refund. I told him I won't issue a refund until I have the package back but the instant it's back I'll refund the full amount. Fine he said.
I called USPS again and told them to please return the package to sender which they supposedly are doing but there's been no update for a few days now.
An hour ago buyer opened up a claim with ebay and they immediately refunded him.
So now I'm out that $250 and the package is in no man's land.
My question is: do I have protection with paypal or ebay if the package gets redelivered to him for some reason and he doesn't do the right thing? Because now that they issued a refund without my permission it's completely out of my control. Thank god it wasn't a much more expensive coin I guess still annoying to deal with.
Comments
When I have bought or sold things on Ebay it will tell me "eligible for buyer/seller protection" or something similar.
I would be surprised to hear there is a mechanism by which eBay or PayPal can force a buyer to pay for something. If you have proof of delivery, possibly eBay might eat the cost but I sure wouldn't want to bet on that happening. Good luck.
Gulp.
Get the number to the local post office where the coin was supposed to be waiting for pick upped. That will take a bit of work and patience this time of year. See if the coin is there and if it can be returned to you.
Ebay nearly hung me for $3000 about four years ago on an extended blizzard delay. Ten days MIA though and they pull the trigger, that is BS.
Yeah that's part of the problem, I've called USPS twice, both times held for over an hour. The first time they told me it was at one address (the one the buyer said he couldn't pick it up at) then the second time when I asked to return to sender they said it was at a different PO and they would put it in the notes to return. So that leads me to believe USPS has no clue where the package is.
And yes they instantly pulled the trigger too, I didn't even have a chance to call them about it. I got an email that a case was opened and then a second email that he had been refunded so they clearly didn't even look into it at all.
I honestly am not even worried if the package is lost that happens and I've had great luck over the years and it's not a large sum of money. Out of spite I just don't want the buyer to get it delivered (for all I know it already was delivered and they just never scanned it as such) and keep the money because I hate scumbags who would do that.
Also see if the postmaster can ask the delivery postperson if they remember the package being out for delivery. I had two that said "no secure location" but were actually delivered and have never updated as delivered. I believe with tracking they also take a picture of it being delivered.
That is the concern with Ebay. I presume that you self insured the package, but even an insured package would not protect you in this case if the item ends up being delivered in the next week or so.
Ebay continues to be less seller friendly and continues to decay as a viable selling option.
Simply go to usps.com and choose find locations. Enter the zip code of the PO you are interested in. You should be able to get the local number from that.
So whose account did eBay take the refund money from? Your's or their's?
If I understand you correctly the package was scanned as delivered? Sounds to me like you should have let the customer contact his Post Office and see where it could lead him. You were covered by ebay until I suspect your communications via PM. I had a similar situation except the buyers package was stolen. I was covered and surprisingly ebay made my customer whole.
No the package was marked as "Out For Delivery" then never updated after that.
The customer did contact the post office and they told him sorry we don't allow package pickup at our office. At that point he asked for a refund and I said no problem I will refund in full once I receive the package back and he said I understand no problem. Then a few days later that wasn't good enough for him and he opened an ebay case and they instantly refunded him.
So now I'm hoping I get the package back or they deem it lost and I get the $50 that comes with priority shipping + the original postage back. The only thing I don't want to happen is them to redeliver it to the person and he gets it for free.
Call your local Best Buy, your record player is broken.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There's something missing from this story. What was the grounds under which the buyer opened the case? If it is simple non-delivery, they don't automatically refund the buyer. Or did the time limit for you to respond expire and they then refunded him?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I just had a somewhat similar situation several months ago on a $375 coin. USPS tracking showed it was "delivered" to the buyer's address. Buyer said he never got it, must have been stolen. Buyer opened an Ebay case and Ebay ruled in my favor almost immediately. Buyer then opened a Paypal case, and after a couple weeks, Paypal ruled in my favor. Buyer then apparently opened a case through his CC company. I just got an email from Paypal the other day saying that the buyer's CC company had ruled in his favor and that Paypal was issuing him a refund, but get this: Paypal said that because I was such a good customer they would not be debiting my account for the amount!!! That was a first!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
They don't carry Shinola
Paypal has always covered me, even for fraud on the buyer's part.
Paypal has awesome protection for both the seller and buyer.
This situation really sucks. What kind of ebay rating did the buyer have? Does buyer have a PO Box... or does mail get delivered to a physical address? I wonder if item was delivered to physical location and PO employee failed to get acceptable scan (either forgot, or it did not register)... with large volume of mail this time of year would not be unusual for this to happen.
If the buyer realized there was no signing or scanning... sometimes temptation comes into play. Not sure what your recourse would be, but hope it turns ok for you.
Probably because it was the Christmas season recently, I had a problem with U.S.P.S as well, my package came two days late not including Christmas Day.
This is all that the case says:
"Request Reason: Item Not Received
Case Reason: The buyer didn't receive the item
Final Decision: The case was decided in buyer's favor"
Then it says: "We didn't receive valid proof of delivery from you" which of course I can't provide since the tracking doesn't show it was delivered.
I get that the case would be decided in his favor, based on tracking he hasn't received the item and he shouldn't be on the hook for it. I guess I just assumed they wouldn't refund him right away and I would get the package back before they did that.
You were covered under the seller protection program. You followed the rules!
Ideally one would expect three to four weeks before Ebay declares a coin not delivered. They are quick on the checkbook with the sellers money.
My guess is that in the holiday rush, a fill in carrier left the package in the box without scanning it in so even with more time you would be SOL. Cost of dong business is a low margin environment.
Not a coincidence that I shuttered my Ebay store for the month of December. Seems to be when many of the problems occur.
Did eBay pull money from your PAYPAL account? Did eBay refund your selling commission to them?
Your story reminds me of the last eBay sale I made to some guy in Europe. The last thing the tracking said was out for delivery. A couple weeks later the buyer said he didn't get it and the post office was returning to sender. I checked the tracking again and it was updated ... notice for delivery left .... then returned to sender. I refunded the $50 purchase price and a month later the item got back to me.
Something missing? Maybe not. The same thing happened to me last week. Buyer filed a non-receipt claim and two hours later, eBay refunded him. I never had a chance to respond to the issue.
How many days had the item been in transit? One would think the holiday rush would be a consideration for the fine folks at Ebay.
Item shipped on the 10th, claim filed on the 17th. Turns out, the package was returned to me with a yellow USPS "Invaild address- Unable to forward" sticker so I'm not out the coin. The email I sent the buyer when the item was shipped bounced, too. I thought eBay required users to have up-to-date contact information. Guess not.
Glad that you got the coin back, Mason.
So Ebay issued a refund after only 7 days in transit during December?
That is a cause for concern.
I have to apologize, the shipping date was the 5th, not the 10th. I misread the date on the email. So- it was 12 days, not 7. For the record, the post office won't accept a claim for loss until 15 days have passed.
I had a similar issue recently with an ebay item I sold. It was shipped to the buyers address in New York City. Shipping last showed that delivery was attempted and no one was available for delivery. Then nothing. Buyer contacted his local post office and they said to him that the item was returned to sender, yet it still shows that delivery was attempted and no one was there to accept, no record of it being returned to sender. I never received the item back, so I asked the seller to give me a few days to look into this before I issued a refund. My local post office looked into this with me and also were confused by the status. They provided me the information to start a case with the post office to locate the item. I went ahead and issued a refund to the buyer. Fortunately it was only a $40 item. At this current time more than 60 days since I filed with the post office I have only received one email stating they had not yet located the package but were trying.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
it's been over 10 days since the "out for delivery." Odds are it will not get delivered, but could be on it's way back to you. I would keep checking tracking. Once and if it tracking says "delivered" a call to ebay will get your money back.
If it is in fact lost in the mail then without insurance you're on the hook for the money. You only have paypal seller protection if your paypal item details page says "seller protection, eligible." But seller protection does not protect a seller from non-delivery, even if you have proof of shipment.
The way ebay/paypal works is a shipment belongs to the seller until there is proof of delivery. In the case of ebay, postal insurance protects sellers not buyers. Buyers are protected by ebay/paypal.
Occasionally after an ebay purchase I will get a message from the seller: "would you like to purchase insurance for this shipment?" My standard reply is "don't need it, I've got ebay and paypal buyer protection. But, you might need it if shipment gets damage or lost."
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
The bold is the part I was wondering about and the reason I started this thread. I was worried that if USPS decided to still deliver the package to him (instead of returning to sender like they're supposed to now) I was SOL if he decided to keep it now that they already refunded him. If I can call and get the money back if it ends up being delivered that's great, I just don't want him getting it for free if he's dishonest. He said he would refuse delivery if it came but that was prior to getting his money back so now I worry he may just say screw it if it ends up coming. We'll find out I guess.
If it has not been delivered due to being being lost/mis-delivered and unrecoverable then the buyer gets reimbursed and the seller gets compensated.
The buyer is covered by the bays protection (seller pays buyer) less commonly known the seller is also covered for lost mail (bay pays seller)... make a phone call to CS.
It may make a difference of the sellers standing, too.
eBay pays for lost mail? I've never found them willing to do so.
If this is the case, the seller would never need to purchase insurance and USPS would have ebay shut down.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
They have a “treasury” account for this if it’s not due to anyone’s fault. Tracking has to show delivery. Buyer has to report non-receipt. Seller has to also report item shipped with tracking. Everyone is made whole except shipping costs.
Is there a limit? Is there a minimum status for buyer/seller? I do not know. Pretty sure they do not allow it too many times.
Interesting what happens when your willing to wait on hold when calling CS.
Edit: The question of USPS reimbursement never entered the equation since there was no insurance.
If the package shows delivered the seller is protected and the buyer is not. Ebay while make some buyers whole though, it has happened with me once.
@PhilLynott...I hope you get your package back....Not a super expensive deal, but it sucks to get a bad deal like that. Let us know... Good luck, Cheers, RickO
Call your local Best Buy, your record player is broken.> @MasonG said:
I haven't had a claim recently. In the past, eBay didn't seem to automatically associate the tracking number with the claim, even if it was in their system. So, the first thing they asked you to do was add the tracking number. If they are now seeing the tracking, are they making the decision based on that?
@MasonG At the time of the claim, was the tracking already showing that it was being returned?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I had a package (I think $40 or so) was claimed non-receipt. The tracking showed delivered. eBay paid the buyer themselves.
If the tracking shows non-delivered, then they don't pay.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The shipment under discussion was never delivered.
There was no tracking in the package.
They refunded without asking for one.
Should stick with the OP's issue and talk about another one in a different thread. This thread has become confusing because we are talking about more than one USPS shipment with different parameters and different outcomes.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
It's also possible the package was delivered and just never scanned as being delivered at the destination by the carrier. I've had that happen more than once but fortunately the recipient was honest about it.
This is also why insurance is for the benefit of the seller not the buyer.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.