I'm afraid to get on eBay with..
bearcave
Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
All the counterfeit coins being there. I don't believe I am good enough to know what to look for in a coin. I may stick to graded coins for now, but I see where graded coins have even been counterfeit!
Ken
2
Comments
Always verify the cert numbers make sure the coin matches the cert numbers for PCGS and NGC coins it’s free to check
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
Just always pay via credit card. Do your due diligence. If all else fails, file a charge back.
Also, you can find trusted sellers and stick with them. Sure the 15 feedback guy had a too good to be true deal on the coin u wanted. But safety first..
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The scam artists often give themselves away by the way they write things up. Stick to slabbed coins from trusted sellers. If you can't do that now just put your wallet away until you can.
Fear drives the market as much as it stymies it.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
You don't have to run out and spend a whole bunch of money straight out of the blocks. You don't have to!
Numismatics is at least a 10 kilometer race, not a 100 yard dash!
Join a coin club if there is one available, find out the local/ regional coin show circuit. Attend, don't spend. Fall,winter, early spring is prime coin show season.
PCGS/NGC slabbed coins from sellers consistently selling a good bit of similar material is about as safe as you can get. If you have any questions once you have it in hand, you can ask for opinions here and force a return if there is a problem
Bear cave what did you used to collect before your collection got stolen?
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It was coins and I got pretty good at it. I just think the scammers have got better at it. I used to be able to tell and could spot a fake but there are more of them now. It's been 15 years since I done this.
eBay is one of the best sources for coins if you know exactly what you are buying.
But how does one with lesser experience detect a fake coin/holder in hand?
The greatest minds in numismatics scrummed for 300 posts trying to figure out the cause of rim markings.
Advice to the buyer is keep the coins to under a hundred bucks and in PCGS or NGC slabs as they are less likely to be forgeries, until you gain the confidence to dive a bit deeper into the water.
Buy coins graded by reputable companies and buy from well established sellers with good reputations. If you don’t know of the sellers, ask around.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Make sure you buy from sellers that have a return privilege. Then when you recieve if you have questions just post them here and we'll walk you through it.
bob
It was when it first started. I made a lot of good money from eBay just starting, buying and selling. I used to buy non tpg coins in 2000 and make pretty good on them. I made my mistakes, don't get me wrong.
That's a good idea!
Bear- what type of coins? Morgans, colonials etc?
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Here is one, the only one I have a picture of,
I bought it raw in 2003 and sold it in 2005. Bought it off eBay for $20 and sent the coin to PCGS it graded a 65 and that time I got $150 for it. I bought mostly Morgan's but would buy other coins I thought would grade. Got fooled a few times.
Focus on good coins, more than good deals. My best coins are the ones I paid too much for.
I have one like that but not as nice as that one
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
That was my point about the credit card. You do the best you can. If you mess up, you file a charge back. In many cases, you've got 6 months to file it.
90% (or maybe 100%) of the people on this forum can be fooled on eBay or anywhere else. Yes, even the professionals. You do the best you can and move on.
I'm all for having a trusted professional dealer.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
If you buy from the right sellers, you shouldn’t have to worry about counterfeits or charge backs. And it’s not especially difficult to find out who they are.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'll start to look at eBay a little longer.
this
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
Serious question, Mark. How carefully are the right sellers vetting incoming coins. I am not talking about the mooses, but the $500-$1000 coins?
Wouldn't the "right sellers" be counterfeit conscience when taking in new inventory?
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
Jedil_567
Check out this s-bag on ebay
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
All of his seller feedback is from the same buyer
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
His mom😁
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I know not to buy from him!
Depends I suppose. Quality of fakes has improved and what do you do when 1000 coins show up for a weekly auction?
If you're a major ebay player (i.e. APMEX) you take the necessary steps to make sure you are not buying and then selling counterfeits. That is not the kind of publicity a major player wants.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
But will they catch the best fakes? And how much time can a verifier or two spend on each coin? I don't think that dealers spend a ton of time on lesser value coins, but I may be wrong.
This is too nebulous a question to really be answered. Would most people on this board catch the "best fakes"? Aren't the "best fakes", by definition, virtually undetectable?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Define it as you like. No one wants to answer the question though. Problem is not so much fake coins, but fake slabs. That was a non issue when I got in nearly two decades ago.
Picked up a bogus slabbed $20 gold about 5 years ago from a university prof selling it on Ebay. It was an easy spot in hand but would have fooled a newb. Fakes are better than that now.
I woke up seven or eight years when a top Washington quarter expert on here nearly got duped on a multi thousand dollar sandwiched coin. Took him several months to determine the scam and fortunately his cc protected him.
Most anyone else would have tucked the coin into the vault and would have been sol if discovered upon resale.
I don’t claim to know the answer. But if you deal with the right sellers and there’s a problem (such as a counterfeit or mislabeled coin), you still shouldn’t have to worry about something like a chargeback. A good seller will take care of such issues.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you are afraid of counterfeits I would either wait to buy until you have a lot of confidence or buy with low amounts of “throw away” money. Then you should be okay even if you end up being cheated.
That sounds good. However, there are many buyers who aren’t even aware of the counterfeit problem or who are aware, but not nearly as expert as they think.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The fake slabs are a problem as well. I will catch up and learn what I can.
Then buy with little money or don’t buy. Personally, I think one can have a lot of fun with relatively low amounts of money in a variety of areas. It took me years before I started purchasing with amounts of money I care about.
Finding a good dealer or mentor can help. Getting feedback on interests can confirm if one is going in the right direction. When I first started buying I would post coins online to get feedback, which is good even for advanced collectors for sharing. It’s important to get feedback and confidence even when buying from trusted sources as heard in the recent Liberty Seated Dollar thread.
@bearcave ....A lot of good advice above...Take your time, collecting is a hobby for most, and should be enjoyed. Your experience in the past will help you get up to speed. This is a great forum, so use it to learn more about issues that have developed since last you were collecting. Check the BST here... forum members selling to forum members...and no fees. Cheers, RickO
Real good advice from the forum members. Back in early 2000's it was my own stupidity, now not only that but fake coins and slabs I have to watch out for.
Even the experts occasionally get fooled. There is no risk-free approach. It's not that @coinstartled isn't making a good point, it's that the only solution is to never buy anything. The perfect is the enemy of the good. You might as well just look at the pretty pictures in the catalogs.
If you are an amateur buying coins from other amateurs on the internet or in dark alleys, expect to buy the occasional fake. Even without intentional scams, there are going to be mistakes.
As you learn more, you will be less likely to buy counterfeits even from the same back alley sellers.
But if you learn more AND deal with reputable, experienced dealers, your probability of making mistakes shrinks even further. But it will never be zero.
True story: About 20 years ago, a local reputable dealer bought an Italian collection from a long-time collector. It had the rare 1946 coins in it. The local dealer sold the 1946 coins it to another knowledgeable local dealer. That second dealer sent the coins to ANACS who authenticated and graded the coins. He then sold them to an Italian specialist who determined they were fake. The specialist went through the dealer to ANACS who then changed their opinion.
Morals of that story:
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
My big ticket coins - just do them at shows.
or grandma.
What kinds of raw coins are you looking at buying? If you are good enough to recognize misrepresented or otherwise unmentioned problem coins, I think fakes are the least of your worries.
I've been doing fractional currency lately and every note so far has come from ebay. I've gotten some terrific examples and no problems as of yet. Just take your time and research each purchase...
My YouTube Channel
hahaha the crooks even copy the slabs including serial numbers... and insert the "right" coins, everything, including the odd scratch and bang, have the alloy right on and, did I miss something!
TPG's will not seriously admit to this problem, but it does happen more often than we know...
I believe it happens to all of us at times. However, most of us will not admit that it could have happened "to me".
I always check certs and compare images to the physical coin. Alternatively, it's not incredibly hard to find past sales history or posting history for some of the more exclusive pieces. Google image search will help you find it posted somewhere, for example.
A higher end coin that doesn't have truview becomes less and less appealing to me the more questions I have on authenticity.
I was browsing seated halves with gold cac and realized neither the slab or sticker can be trusted anymore.
I'm just not good enough at coins for some of these examples and the last thing I want in my collection is silver coated cork.
TruView wasn't even around when I started. I think TruView started in 2005 or 2006? Not sure. I am bad to want to pull the last bid on a coin just before it ends, guess I will have to look closer at the coin, and holder and cac sticker! I will have to put TruView on everything I try to sell. I didn't even know what CAC was till a couple weeks ago.
I didn't realize how important CAC was until a few days ago, so hey. :-)
Tbh, I'm more upset about the fake toning going around. There were not textiles on 2018 ASE. There are not suddenly bright blue legit bullseyes on all these old coins that never had them before. Or brilliant orange waves that look like pooled saltwater evaporated and left chemicals behind.
I'd 100% rather see counterfeit coins and slabs all day every day than these people deface American history. I'm sure Instagram is a little to blame for this hyper-reality their users push. They can't even keep people honest how are coins gonna be safe.
I don't mean to push the envelope or get mean about it, but what good is the slab tax and cac tax? Those are supposed to be there for us to rely on their expertise, yet here we are with gold CAC in a new PCGS that obviously had a hose stuck through it.