How the U.S. Mint produced Silver Dollars Possible solution as to how the "1899-O Error" was minted

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abcde12345
abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 18, 2019 9:59AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Interesting read from a government patent document detailing in vague terms how The United States Mint produces millions of shiny silver cartwheels on a yearly basis:

"The process, although complex is not complicated: The minting press nut spacing and crack system rim-riding rip configuration are applied. Using a field of half-C sprats, and brass-fitted nickel slits, our bracketed caps, and splay-flexed brace columns vent dampers to dampening hatch depths of one-half meter from the damper crown to the spurve plinths. How? Well, we bolster twelve husk nuts to each girdle-jerry, while flex tandems press a task apparatus of ten vertically composited patch-hamplers. Then, pin-flam-fastened pan traps at both maiden-apexes of the jim-joist."

There you go, my friends. An answer to our mystery.

Comments

  • TommyType
    TommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Huh....I would have thought there were more doo-hickeys and thing-a-ma-jigs involved. :neutral:

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    By jove!

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • abcde12345
    abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Here is a list of the Mint's minty mint procedures:

    attrition
    gravity
    mischief
    calamity
    incompetence
    erosion
    contraction
    expansion
    buffoonery

    (I lifted this list from another competent source.)

  • FredWeinberg
    FredWeinberg Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I've not posted my opinion in the main thread about this coin,
    but I will here -

    It is not an error of any kind, imo. I've seen this 'look' or
    effect before - it's the result of another coin being on this
    coin, probably in a bag o' dollars, and pressed onto the
    rims - yes, I've read the other explanations in the other
    thread, but I do not subscribe to them.

    It appears I'll see the coin in-hand in the next month or so.

    Just my thoughts.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Authentic frontier gibberish:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xyV68KN5A

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Interesting Fred. Your expertise carries lots of weight. Please update us when you’ve had a chance to see it.

  • BAJJERFAN
    BAJJERFAN Posts: 31,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FredWeinberg said:
    I've not posted my opinion in the main thread about this coin,
    but I will here -

    It is not an error of any kind, imo. I've seen this 'look' or
    effect before - it's the result of another coin being on this
    coin, probably in a bag o' dollars, and pressed onto the
    rims - yes, I've read the other explanations in the other
    thread, but I do not subscribe to them.

    It appears I'll see the coin in-hand in the next month or so.

    Just my thoughts.

    If that's true it should be easy enough to duplicate. Anyone willing to try? What kinds of handling storage and conditions were the bags subject to that would produce the pressure needed to imprint the coin like that? Wouldn't it be expected to be a very common occurrence?

    theknowitalltroll;
  • topstuf
    topstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Mint employees. Far right technician does the dollars.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Notice how the obverse rim is damaged from 5 to 6 o'clock by whatever force squeezed this coin against another one.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FredWeinberg said:
    I've not posted my opinion in the main thread about this coin,
    but I will here -

    It is not an error of any kind, imo. I've seen this 'look' or
    effect before - it's the result of another coin being on this
    coin, probably in a bag o' dollars, and pressed onto the
    rims - yes, I've read the other explanations in the other
    thread, but I do not subscribe to them.

    It appears I'll see the coin in-hand in the next month or so.

    Just my thoughts.

    IMO, your opinion belongs on the main discussion thread rather than this fantasy piece. :)

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Certainly such pressure could be applied if multiple bags were stacked in storage...and then left for an extended period. Cheers, RickO

  • abcde12345
    abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Now that the "Mystical Morgan Mystery" (yes, I've titled it, and yes, I enjoy alliteration) is solved, try this one:

  • 10000lakes
    10000lakes Posts: 811 ✭✭✭✭
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    Blue=1
    Silver=8
    Red=5

  • abcde12345
    abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice!

    Now show your work.

    Kidding...

    Answer To Only A Mastermind Can Solve This Puzzle
    If a solution exists to the problem, then c has to be between 0 and 9.

    The units column is c + c + c = 3c, which will range from 3(0) = 0 to 3(9) = 27. This means there are 3 cases for the summation in the units/ones column.

    3c = c
    (But then c = 0, which means the answer is 000 so then a = b = 0, which is not possible since each digit is a different number).

    3c = 20 + c
    (But then c = 10, which is not possible since each digit is between 0 and 9).

    3c = 10 + c
    In this case, c = 5, so the answer is 555.

    Now we have abc + abc + abc = 3(abc) = 555.

    So let’s divide both sides by 3.

    We get

    abc = 555/3 = 185

    Thus a = 1 and b = 8.

    So the blue circle is 1, the grey circle is 8, and the red circle is 5, and we’ve solved it!

  • hchcoin
    hchcoin Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @10000lakes said:
    Blue=1
    Silver=8
    Red=5

    Well done!

  • Batman23
    Batman23 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    My work was simple. The answer had to be three digits 333 or above and not increments of 333. So that left 444, 555, 777, 888. Process of elimination by dividing the "total" by three and finding the one where the last digit was the same as the answer. 185.

    Not as technical as your process but I had it figured out within the minute ;)

  • 10000lakes
    10000lakes Posts: 811 ✭✭✭✭
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    5 is the only valid value for red, after that the other two digits solve themselves

  • Batman23
    Batman23 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @topstuf said:
    Mint employees. Far right technician does the dollars.

    I'm thinking I might be into dimes ;)

  • hchcoin
    hchcoin Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019 2:34PM
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    1cent, 5 cent, 10 cent, 25 cent, 50 cent, 100 cent
    @Batman23 That's how I see it :o

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ricko said:
    Certainly such pressure could be applied if multiple bags were stacked in storage...and then left for an extended period. Cheers, RickO

    That's not how metal works. Time makes no difference. Metal will withstand a stress below its yield strength for eternities without permanent deformation (that's why skyscrapers and bridges don't progressively bend and sag over the years). The metal in structures is often loaded to more than 50% of its yield strength and is designed to stay that way for centuries. The instant the yield strength is exceeded, metal will start moving and thereafter demonstrate permanent deformation.

    Striking pressure for silver-dollar sized coins is in the neighborhood of 100-200 tons. For a coin that is 1.76 square inches in area that works out to somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 psi. Sorry, but even mountains of bags won't produce pressure like that. Drop it 15 feet from a forklift........ maybe, but I doubt even the gorillas at the mint were in the habit of doing that. Even soft gold planchets require a substantial whack to fully strike them when using a hammer and anvil.

  • TommyType
    TommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Maybe this qualifies as trivia....

    But keep in mind that this is an MS-66 coin! Seems to me that it didn't experience a whole lot of "bag tosses".

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • Davideo
    Davideo Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:
    Notice how the obverse rim is damaged from 5 to 6 o'clock by whatever force squeezed this coin against another one.

    The contention by the pro-error crowd is that this is not damage as the displaced metal would be displaced somewhere and it does not obviously appear to be anywhere, such as along the edge of the depression.

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