A couple of highlights from an otherwise dismal submission. Trueviews added.
toyz4geo
Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
My 8 free submissions we're about to lapse last month so I gathered a few things together so at least I wouldn't lose out on the free grading. Anyway, 4 came back as QC, even a 1956-D that I pulled out of a 1956 original mint set. Ugh. 2 of the coins I submitted were pulled from a BU set of Roosies I bought a few years ago. Both RPM varieties. As it stands, the 1946-S is a top pop, 1of 6, and the 1947-S is 1 of 1 in 66+, 1 higher. Better than the other stuff did. Still waiting on trueviews.
What do you think?
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There’s been a lot of uproar on IG lately about the amount of coins getting QC’d recently. Someone posted they submitted 31 toned ASE’s and went 0-31, and it wasn’t an amateur who didn’t know what they were doing.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/rs8199/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
At least my dimes made the cut.
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I just had 2 submissions of 9 total Roosevelt toners finish up. 3 were cracks and 6 were crosses. Went 9 for 9 with 4 upgrades.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/rs8199/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
Nice!
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@toyz4geo
Here was the best upgrade. Went from 66fb to 67+fb. Was in an older 7 digit holder.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/rs8199/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
Jon may have something to say about these Roosevelt varieties. @DIMEMAN
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As I always say on submissions, lose some, win some. Glad you got some keepers.
WS
Those are a couple of nice Dime varieties. Are they for sale or do they go in your sets?
Not to derail this whole discussion, but I saw those ASEs and personally I think QC made sense on them (as I often find to be the case in similar scenarios on IG). Previously PCGS was far too loose on straight grading questionable ASEs, now it looks like they have tightened it up and I for one am glad to see it. Realistically ASEs shouldn't really be toning in crazy patterns (grill-marks, for some reason? textile toning, on coins that are not stored in canvas bags? liquid splotches? absolutely no elevations chromatics to be found?) and wild colors we so often see without some form of help along the way, but I think that we are so used to seeing them like this that we tend not to question it when really we should. There are people out there who have made and continue to make thousands upon thousands of dollars in profit from melt-value bullion and a little bit of sulfur or gas, and I do not think we should be enabling them by letting this stuff slide.
I mean, here are five examples from the submission you're referring to. Look at them.
It infuriates me to no end that every time this happens to someone on Instagram (which is frequently enough), the disappointed submitter posts a huge rant denouncing PCGS as "unprofessional" and "inconsistent" and of course, how they believe that their coins are natural and PCGS is wrong, and then of course 200 or so of their followers hop on the hate train and bash PCGS, when really if any of them knew anything about artificial toning they would be able to spot these as suspect from a mile off. Doesn't it strike you as a little strange that someone would suddenly have 34 wildly and similarly toned ASEs out of the blue, and that somehow they're all supposed to be natural?
I do not like the sort of mob mentality I frequently see within the coin community on Instagram. I don't fault the original posters who lose out on their submissions - I get it, it sucks and you wasted a bunch of money (and I don't believe they are artificially toning the coins, only that they are unwittingly buying them from people who do). But I do not like to see the way people react nonetheless, and the ever-present push to attack en masse whoever is deemed at fault in that moment by the single unhappy person.
I also do not like the way NGC's Instagram account behaves in these scenarios, for that matter. I often see them fanning the flames in the comments, advising that people use their services or expressing their consolations anytime anyone expresses dissatisfaction with PCGS. To be quite frank, the only reason PCGS does not stoop to the level of arguing or engaging with users publicly on IG is because they are in fact too professional to do so, and when I see NGC behave this way, all I can think is, "Wow, now that is unprofessional and childish." Unfortunately, because PCGS is too professional to act similarly, the mob won't be wooed their way (and ironically, will call them "unprofessional" instead). But anyway, #EndRant.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
I agree with you. I follow Kyle on Instagram and he is a fine young man, but he made a grave miscalculation here, and clearly missed the warning signs from PCGS bagging lots of ASE's lately. I feel bad for him, and it is an expensive lesson, but it is tuition paid.
You cannot really apply the same standards from other types of coins to grading ASE's as they have a greater fineness, but as a generality, all of the coins he shared in his post look problematic to me, and the comparison was disingenuous at best, as we know several of the big dollar ASE's graded before were almost certainly artificially toned.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
What is “4 came back as QC”?
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questionable color
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
For this thread it is uncertain how a bunch of silver coins would turn blue with “fancy” patterns.
Looking at the pics posted previously it looks like a child took to a water color paint brush... IMO.
Sorry I went OT.
AT is rampant on ASE's and has been for a long time...There are many in slabs that should not be there...Glad to see that seems to be changing....Cheers, RickO
@toyz4geo Congrats on the coins that did make it! Can you share photos of the coins that didn't make it? It would be good to see what our hosts are considering MA vs. not-MA these days.
@Rexford Those grill marks look like they could be from corrugated cardboard mailers as discussed in the thread below. There was a dealer "chromatic_coins" on IG that had a lot of these. Is this the same person as in the posts you mention?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/982866/corrugated-cardboard-toning-formerly-waffle-toning/p1
TPG's started this mess so let them finish it. Only reason NGC doesn't have this much of a problem is that perception that their coins are worth more in PCGS holders. Let the problem run its course and remember that once these coins are holdered with numerical grades they will stay that way to be bought and sold time after time again !
Yes, they are supposedly from corrugated cardboard, which they very well may be, but there certainly aren't hundreds of silver eagles toning wildly against corrugated cardboard by accident and without some help. That's not the dealer I'm referring to, but I don't wish to draw attention to any person in particular - my issue is more with the reactionary crowds and the lack of general knowledge about natural vs artificial toning floating around, than with the submitters themselves.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
The interesting thing is that the ones I posted in that thread were all straight graded. I wonder if PCGS sees something different in this new set of coins or if acceptability is changing.
nice dimes, if these 2 were yours, I would try again
Acceptability at PCGS seem to change around December 2018 / January 2019 from my observations, after the edynamicmarketing fiasco.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
@Rexford "and then of course 200 or so of their followers hop on the hate train and bash PCGS, when really if any of them knew anything about artificial toning they would be able to spot these as suspect from a mile off."
Bots. A lot of them are bots. People who scam on social media know full well how to manipulate it. It would be hard for me to believe people pulling hundreds of thousands of dollars wouldn't be doing this in 2019. You can even hire people to make false accounts and say whatever you want them to say on fb/ig/etc. There are ads on reddit right now for exactly this purpose. Some are for disinformation, some for harassment, or used for swaying your audience a certain way (e.g., closer to their wallet for your fake coins).
It's a brave new world, my man.
With submissions costing $20 per coin and up, plus invoice fee and shipping, it only makes sense if you get straight grades at serious grade levels in most cases. Similar problem with cac if you are charged for every coin submitted.